Question Which material would be best for a work trailer set of decals?

[newprinterguy]

Hello everyone, I'm very new to the industry and I recently got a work order from a local blue collar guy starting his own foam injection business for concrete leveling. Its my job to produce and install his decals and I've never done it before.
I'm on my own for this project so step one is deciding on what material would be best. I have some others at my disposal but these are my top 3 choices for the job.

Orafol 5600 Reflective Vinyl, Avery Dennison MPI 2050 "Opague vinyl", and Substance Ultracurve 1000, 10 mil vinyl.

I plan to design on Illustrator, export with registry marks to versaworks, print from the Roland XR-640, laminate with the Royal Sovereign laminator, then move to the Graphtec cutter for final processing, then weeding.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[White Haus]

I would take MPI 2050 and Substance off your list, for this application. Reading and familiarizing yourself with materials' intended application will be a good starting point. All manufacturers will have product bulletins and sell sheets for every material they make/sell.

That leaves the 5600 reflective or having to buy another material, not to mention a matching laminate.

Does the customer want reflective? Do they have a budget and/or have you discussed price?

Personally I use 3M IJ180cv3 + 3M 8418G for vehicle graphics. I believe ND sells both in short rolls/by the yard if you want to keep your inventory low, but once you get your volume up you'll want to buy/stock full rolls of the common materials for most projects.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you don't just cut the graphics on the XR-640? We've had both an XR-640 and a standalone (Summa) plotter and for the most part the Roland print/cut machines will do a decent job.

Hope that helps, this project will be a big learning curve for you but you'll surely learn some valuable lessons by the time you're finished. Hopefully you have a patient and understanding customer.

 

[Stacey K]

What does the trailer look like?
Are there screws or rivets?

Reflective sucks, avoid it if you can.

For regular cut graphics I use Oracal 751. You can use 3M or Avery but many on this forum prefer Oracal.
For print what Whitehaus said or I use Arlon SLX.
For the reflective...if it's printed I order it from Signs365. I print so little reflective that I have not wanted to invest in buying an entire roll so I just order as needed from signs365. They charge $8sq ft.

 

[newprinterguy]

I would take MPI 2050 and Substance off your list, for this application. Reading and familiarizing yourself with materials' intended application will be a good starting point. All manufacturers will have product bulletins and sell sheets for every material they make/sell.

That leaves the 5600 reflective or having to buy another material, not to mention a matching laminate.

Does the customer want reflective? Do they have a budget and/or have you discussed price?

Personally I use 3M IJ180cv3 + 3M 8418G for vehicle graphics. I believe ND sells both in short rolls/by the yard if you want to keep your inventory low, but once you get your volume up you'll want to buy/stock full rolls of the common materials for most projects.

Out of curiosity, is there a reason you don't just cut the graphics on the XR-640? We've had both an XR-640 and a standalone (Summa) plotter and for the most part the Roland print/cut machines will do a decent job.

Hope that helps, this project will be a big learning curve for you but you'll surely learn some valuable lessons by the time you're finished. Hopefully you have a patient and understanding customer.

Thanks very much for the reply,

and for narrowing down my choices. We have some IJ180mc-10 on order along with some 8518 Laminate. We ordered those for some boat decals we're doing so i will let the customer know that the material is on its way instead of using what we already have (The wrong stuff) and i dont think he wants to pay for reflective. I forgot how expensive that stuff is and the customer is a self employed only worker so I doubt he wants that.

The reason i want to avoid using the xr640 for cutting in this instance is that the decals will need to be laminated and i do not know how it would go if i printed, laminated and then put back in the roland xr.640 for cutting. i would need to laminate before cutting ofcourse or the cut outs would be under a layer of solid lam.

He is awaiting my ballpark figure for pricing which i need to send off today. But i havent told him any numbers yet. The customer is a nice guy and is aware that im new to this so im expecting some flexibility. He is however hoping to have this done by early next week which may not be possible depending on the time it takes for the materials to arrive.
Im in a unique spot as my predecessor was fully autonomous in this company and left, then i came in fresh out of design school into this position with nobody with any print knowledge around me, so im learning the basics on my own from the ground up. Still trying to determine what we use the most often and the best materials for certain jobs.

Thanks again

 

[newprinterguy]

What does the trailer look like?
Are there screws or rivets?

Reflective sucks, avoid it if you can.

For regular cut graphics I use Oracal 751. You can use 3M or Avery but many on this forum prefer Oracal.
For print what Whitehaus said or I use Arlon SLX.
For the reflective...if it's printed I order it from Signs365. I print so little reflective that I have not wanted to invest in buying an entire roll so I just order as needed from signs365. They charge $8sq ft.

Thankyou for the reply,
This is the trailer, I believe it has some rivets and obstacles.

 

[Gino]

Think I see many many rivets. Is this gonna be a wrap or partial wrap of some sorts ?? Do you have any idea of the layout ?? You need to know these things in order to give the guy an estimate. Lastly, do you have a place to apply the graphics, inside ??

 

[newprinterguy]

Think I see many many rivets. Is this gonna be a wrap or partial wrap of some sorts ?? Do you have any idea of the layout ?? You need to know these things in order to give the guy an estimate. Lastly, do you have a place to apply the graphics, inside ??

This is roughly how it looks at the moment, i already received notes from the customer for changes.
But he seems pleased overall with the direction its headed.
We were initially talking about the possibility of a wrap but decided to go with individual decals instead.
Yes there is a shop here to do the work inside.

Thankyou very much for the reply.

 

[Boudica]

Oof.

 

[Gino]

Estimates are almost always free, so that is wasted copy.
The two grey slabs don't do much, not really.
The yellow color should be darker on white background and drop the outline so you don't hafta print it.
Altogether, far too much copy. No one will ever read that much copy in traffic, at a stop light or anywhere, except, when it's parked..... and probably not even then. I have trouble reading it all right in front of me.

The way that is, without outlines, I'd say about.. $ $2,400 and that includes two revisions.

 

[newprinterguy]

I agree, the design isn't great but its closely based on the customers pencil ideas. I'm mostly concerned with the logistics of material choice at the moment and price estimation. Thankyou for the head start on that. And the outlines are going to be removed as well as the fonts changed. Unfortunately the colors have to match his existing logo which is the grey and orange logo on the sides.
This is what he sent me to work with.
He's trying to get bang for his buck ofcourse but should i just tell him that the design is too text heavy? Worth mentioning this is my first real customer.

 

[Stacey K]

Clever logo with the arrow and the sunken slab LOL

It looks smooth paneled but dirty to me. At any rate...

If you're going with individual graphics, I would use Oracal 751 and if they don't have the colors in stock then 3M then Avery.

You're design is not going to fit the trailer. You or the customer - take a head on photo of each side, the rear and each angled front. upload them into your program and superimpose the graphics onto the photos. I measure from side to side and top of wheel to top of trailer, etc. for all sides. make them full size in the computer then you know exactly where everything will fit. Or you need to get a template online or find the same trailer photos online.
Like this...

What is reflective on your design? Everything or just a couple things? I hate reflective. I stay away from outlining every single word also. The cut vinyl is going to last longer than printed so I tend to steer people towards that and avoid outlines on everything...keep it simple. But, that's me.

 

[newprinterguy]

Clever logo with the arrow and the sunken slab LOL

It looks smooth paneled but dirty to me. At any rate...

If you're going with individual graphics, I would use Oracal 751 and if they don't have the colors in stock then 3M then Avery.

You're design is not going to fit the trailer. You or the customer - take a head on photo of each side, the rear and each angled front. upload them into your program and superimpose the graphics onto the photos. I measure from side to side and top of wheel to top of trailer, etc. for all sides. make them full size in the computer then you know exactly where everything will fit. Or you need to get a template online or find the same trailer photos online.
Like this...

What is reflective on your design? Everything or just a couple things? I hate reflective. I stay away from outlining every single word also. The cut vinyl is going to last longer than printed so I tend to steer people towards that and avoid outlines on everything...keep it simple. But, that's me.

View attachment 170855

Thanks! Thats a great idea for making sure everything will fit. I will get those photos and try it your way. I dont think anything is reflective at the moment. The reflective material i mentioned earlier was just what we have on hand thats vehicle grade, but after White Haus's input i will not be using that stuff.

 

[Stacey K]

I agree, the design isn't great but its closely based on the customers pencil ideas. I'm mostly concerned with the logistics of material choice at the moment and price estimation. Thankyou for the head start on that. And the outlines are going to be removed as well as the fonts changed. Unfortunately the colors have to match his existing logo which is the grey and orange logo on the sides.
This is what he sent me to work with.
He's trying to get bang for his buck ofcourse but should i just tell him that the design is too text heavy? Worth mentioning this is my first real customer.

You can approach it with the estimate for exactly what he wants (Gino is close with that estimate, I would be a little less but I'm rural WI) and with less copy it's XXX - see what is more important, the money or the extra copy. Often price will dictate the amount of copy.

I have customers that have the same amount of copy and it's just how some people are - weird.

 

[Gino]

Well, it's kinda hard to say to him..... as your professional opinion, but he needs to know that his idea will be total overload. Ya need to be honest with him, or your first truck will be a disaster on what some unknowing person wants. There are 100 ways to lay that out and do him more good than that mess. Granted, he's new and what's everyone to know what he does, but with that much copy, people will glance at it and your mind's eye will just say, that's too much to read and go to the next interesting thing it sees like a tree or where to turn next.

Rule on a billboard is anything over seven words is never gonna be read. Ask him how many words he can read on the billboards with the Gettysburg Address written on them ?? He needs to understand the visual point from a common person. They are not studying his truck, their eyes are darting all over the place.

By the way, on my puter, it looked yellow. I didn't know it was orange, therefore they really don't need an outline.

 

[Stacey K]

Since this is your first customer, I would go through all the motions of measuring, etc. If you lose the bid, you gain the experience for next time. It's good practice.

Once you have all the measurements you can calculate exactly how much vinyl and masking you will use. I buy 24" vinyl so I make 24" rectangles in my program and copy/paste the graphics how I would cut them out then calculate. Double the materials for sure or more. Cutting/Weed/Mask will take at least a couple hours. I would set aside a full day for application but for you take set aside 2 days.

 

[mkmie]

This is roughly how it looks at the moment, i already received notes from the customer for changes.
But he seems pleased overall with the direction its headed.
We were initially talking about the possibility of a wrap but decided to go with individual decals instead.
Yes there is a shop here to do the work inside.

Thankyou very much for the reply.

Am I the only one who thought Levelling was spelled wrong?

This is roughly how it looks at the moment, i already received notes from the customer for changes.
But he seems pleased overall with the direction its headed.
We were initially talking about the possibility of a wrap but decided to go with individual decals instead.
Yes there is a shop here to do the work inside.

Thankyou very much for the reply.

Am I the only one who thought Levelling was spelled wrong? Had to look it up. US--leveling Brits---Levelling.
If you were more experienced it would be better to wrap that. All that print, cut, weed, mask takes a lot of time. Printed panel of 1105/1360 or IJ180/8518. Line it up, smooth it out, a little heat. Done.
Cut vinyl has its place but with that amount of "information," a wrap would seem more efficient.

I had to edit. I don't want to sound like wrapping a trailer is easy for the untrained. Rivets and obstacles.are a challange but once you know how, you know how.

 

[newprinterguy]

Am I the only one who thought Levelling was spelled wrong?

Am I the only one who thought Levelling was spelled wrong? Had to look it up. US--leveling Brits---Levelling.
If you were more experienced it would be better to wrap that. All that print, cut, weed, mask takes a lot of time. Printed panel of 1105/1360 or IJ180/8518. Line it up, smooth it out, a little heat. Done.
Cut vinyl has its place but with that amount of "information," a wrap would seem more efficient.

I had to edit. I don't want to sound like wrapping a trailer is easy for the untrained. Rivets and obstacles.are a challange but once you know how, you know how.

Im Canadian, we utilizes the Brit spelling usually. Colour, Honour, ect. I think as its my first crack at a job like this and i have no help, the decals might be a safer bet, I agree that the wrap wouldve been better overall but im a little intimidated by it so i told the customer individual decals would be easier to replace should any of them wear out over the years. Im looking forward to my 3M wrap training this summer but until then id rather not create a mess for myself.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I'm late to the party here, but IMHO you've got too many words on it. When that trailer is driving by you, you cant read all of that information.

Does he have pictures that you can use to showcase his work?
If it were me, I'd put the name of the company, phone number, address, email, website. then photos.

 

[VizualVoice]

My honest first impression was "oh my that is REALLY REALLY BUSY". From a visual standpoint, you're trying to fit too much in which makes me not want to bother reading ANY of it. Just my dos centavos.

 

[Rmurray321]

We use an Avery 2903 for cheaper flat applications and an over laminate. This is a calendared laminate that works well

For long term and better work Avery 1105 with 1060 laminate. Cast laminate system. Expensive, but awesome