Question 3M Cast vinyl shortage?!?!

[Michael-Nola]

As a general point of contention for me, there would certainly be a lot LESS of a shortage if company after company would stop putting all their baloney decals and generic junk on 180! I have finally had to make a company rule that if it isn't a wrap, it cannot go on 180 without approval. It's just one of those things that gets under my skin.

 

[MelloImagingTechnologies]

Almost all of my guys have switched to Arlon

 

[MikePatterson]

Well Avery 1105 is in the same boat. I just got the last 4 rolls from GSG Dallas and Houston. We usually buy by the pallet. I'm now in talks with some other mfg's and testing films that we can get. We have another 200 or more wraps on the books for 1 of our customers and probably 30 more one the books for individuals. If this gets worse I'm going to have some upset customers for sure.

Has anyone tried the new Arlon SLX+? We hated the way Arlon SLX installed. I am open to whatever film that will last in Texas heat, and a laminate that wont burn up in 3 years.

I thought not being able to get F150's and Nissan NV2500 was bad, but this is not funny any more. I still dont have any eta on NV vans out of Japan and evidentially Ford cant get a micro processor for the truck ecm.

 

[Jrdn]

coating issue on 180 with existing supply, and then supply chain problems with new production. Existing defect shouldn't affect solvent but can't use with latex. Don't know if this has changed in the last couple weeks, but am told solvent printers can order direct from 3m rep with 10 roll minimum and sign off on no warranty. New supply should start trickling in before long. Make good friends with your supplier reps....

 

[Jrdn]

Well Avery 1105 is in the same boat. I just got the last 4 rolls from GSG Dallas and Houston. We usually buy by the pallet. I'm now in talks with some other mfg's and testing films that we can get. We have another 200 or more wraps on the books for 1 of our customers and probably 30 more one the books for individuals. If this gets worse I'm going to have some upset customers for sure.

Has anyone tried the new Arlon SLX+? We hated the way Arlon SLX installed. I am open to whatever film that will last in Texas heat, and a laminate that wont burn up in 3 years.

I thought not being able to get F150's and Nissan NV2500 was bad, but this is not funny any more. I still dont have any eta on NV vans out of Japan and evidentially Ford cant get a micro processor for the truck ecm.

Slx+ is very nice. Facestock feels the same as SLX but the adhesive has a bit higher initial tack. As an extremely high level installer, I feel Arlon's adhesive system is the best there is for custom install work requiring precise positioning and placement with it's tack versatility and user controllability, but isn't as simple as the swipe and walk away approach you can get away with more in high volume commercial applications like 180 and 1105. You do have to spend a little extra time ensuring full squeegee pressure and post heating both tucked and stretched recesses and edges. That said, if you're installing in higher temps and humidity conditions, the time you save fighting the higher tack of 3m and avery far outweighs the time you need to spend going over the wrap post application. It stays put under high stress, with proper post heat and pressure, better than anything else out there.

 

[MikePatterson]

We don't have time to babysit the jobs like the Arlon Reps wanted us to when they came to the shop over a year ago. They wanted us to keep the job for 24 hours and double check it. Also they advised post heating every square inch of film. We post heat now but only the edges, recesses, and body lines. It would add at least an hour to every job to post heat the way Arlon wants it done. That is about 30 hours a week just post heating.
We are cranking out multiple jobs a day and usually the job leaves that day to be delivered to the next sub on the list. Sounds like I will be sourcing 1105 from anyone I can get it from.

 

[Mimi9271]

Can't even order it from fellers anymore. They told me 3M ran out of something and can't produce cast vinyl no more. I was able to get some from grimco for now.

I just went through this last week. I needed 3M IJ180 Clear. Fellers pulled through and found two rolls in Charlotte NC. I was able to get one of them, so I got lucky.

 

[signmania]

Can't even order it from fellers anymore. They told me 3M ran out of something and can't produce cast vinyl no more. I was able to get some from grimco for now.

The power problems in Texas due to the weather caused 3M to shut down a plant making the liner for the 180 series. Supposedly the plant was going to be shut down for at least a month.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Starting to have more polycarb problems....

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Last week Eastern Metal couldn't tell me when they would be getting more 5x10x.063 aluminum. We've been playing the "how big of a sheet should I waste" game on poly for a while now. Seems like everytime I need a 4x8, they only have 5x10, need a 5x10, can only order 8' reel by the foot...

Yup... same thing here in Dallas. This week no 76" so I get a good amount of waste cutting 3x6's out of 54" material.

 

[tyzero]

A lot of mis-information on this post. I have been aware of this situation for 2 weeks and literally just spoke to 3M a few minutes ago.
3M has been having issues with pooling on their films (this was confirmed by my inside 3M sales rep). I brought this to our suppliers attention in September 20'. A few weeks ago 3M decided to shut down their plant without informing anyone. If you were lucky enough to grab some stock good for you. The issue was so bad the complaints made its way to the VP of 3M.

A few very large jobs that were paused for 2020 and finally hit for 21'. Coupled with a shortage of polymer with the Dallas plant closing for 3 days. Moving forward I was told 3M will check every master roll for defects moving forward. This is what is being told is the reason for the shortage. Directly from 3M I was told best case supplies would be back to normal May, worst case end of July!

Buckle UP!!!!

 

[Jester1167]

3M will never tell you the truth. I have heard most of these stories and I will add a personal one.

My buddy was trying to get his hand on 8 rolls of 3552. even tried direct with 3M and they said they could. Next thing he knows all 3552 is a no-go if you are printing with solvents and they were shifting all their rolls to UV and Latex printers. He did find 8 rolls from another supplier and 4 rolls printed perfectly and 4 rolls printed with white spots stippled all over the print. All 4 bad rolls had similar lot numbers. This must be the reason for shifting the stock to UV and Latex printers. He was able to get replacement rolls excluding the bad lot numbers (ending in 811 and 813)

Sound like 3M has many different major problems.

3M isn't the only one though. Oracal has their problems and Avery has had some laminate problems.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

A lot of mis-information on this post. I have been aware of this situation for 2 weeks and literally just spoke to 3M a few minutes ago.
3M has been having issues with pooling on their films (this was confirmed by my inside 3M sales rep). I brought this to our suppliers attention in September 20'. A few weeks ago 3M decided to shut down their plant without informing anyone. If you were lucky enough to grab some stock good for you. The issue was so bad the complaints made its way to the VP of 3M.

A few very large jobs that were paused for 2020 and finally hit for 21'. Coupled with a shortage of polymer with the Dallas plant closing for 3 days. Moving forward I was told 3M will check every master roll for defects moving forward. This is what is being told is the reason for the shortage. Directly from 3M I was told best case supplies would be back to normal May, worst case end of July!

Buckle UP!!!!

What is pooling?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

What is pooling?

I'd assume ink not sticking to the vinyl

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Last week Eastern Metal couldn't tell me when they would be getting more 5x10x.063 aluminum. We've been playing the "how big of a sheet should I waste" game on poly for a while now. Seems like everytime I need a 4x8, they only have 5x10, need a 5x10, can only order 8' reel by the foot...

I swear everytime I have called them for the past 3 years they are out of stuff. ACM, .080, .063, doesn't matter. If by some miracle it's in stock, the guy loading it will stick a fork in it or they band it so tight that it bends and if it manages to get through all of that undamaged then the driver will overtighten the strap and bend it. Oh yeah... Or stack 10 stops on top of your order and fuck it up that way.

 

[WYLDGFI]

We're still waiting on 3m cast stock here as well.....Avery has been our alternative for most jobs without an issue, but some clients specifically request 3m for their jobs. Not fun.

 

[CSOCSO]

Crazy. Yet another reason I'm glad we just switched to Avery 1105. 2 bundles in and this stuff is amazing. (Cuts/weeds a little weird compared to 3M though)

I honestly can't believe I kept using IJ180cv3 for all these years, always hated it. Never going back!!

I do hate how the ij180 installs. I print with solvent and even after letting it sit 24 hrs its waaaaaay to tacky. Leaves bubbles that do no go away even if you poke them. If it touches itself or the surface the air release is ruined. Switched to 1105 for a couple years. Then I realized avery doesn't last and comes off really bad. switched back to 3M right away. I won't go back to avery again if i don't have to. Try 3m ij175. easier to work with.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

I do hate how the ij180 installs. I print with solvent and even after letting it sit 24 hrs its waaaaaay to tacky. Leaves bubbles that do no go away even if you poke them. If it touches itself or the surface the air release is ruined. Switched to 1105 for a couple years. Then I realized avery doesn't last and comes off really bad. switched back to 3M right away. I won't go back to avery again if i don't have to. Try 3m ij175. easier to work with.

What laminate were you using with Avery? Also, we have removed 3-year-old wraps with no issues at all on Avery. Every brand after about year 2 in AZ is tough to remove, after 3 years of exposure they all are starting to shatter by year 4 they all are a nightmare.

 

[MikePatterson]

What laminate were you using with Avery? Also, we have removed 3-year-old wraps with no issues at all on Avery. Every brand after about year 2 in AZ is tough to remove, after 3 years of exposure they all are starting to shatter by year 4 they all are a nightmare.

We switched to Arlon 3270 for lam over Avery 1105. Avery's lam has not performed for us in Texas. 3 years on horizontal is about all we could get out of it.

 

[White Haus]

I do hate how the ij180 installs. I print with solvent and even after letting it sit 24 hrs its waaaaaay to tacky. Leaves bubbles that do no go away even if you poke them. If it touches itself or the surface the air release is ruined. Switched to 1105 for a couple years. Then I realized avery doesn't last and comes off really bad. switched back to 3M right away. I won't go back to avery again if i don't have to. Try 3m ij175. easier to work with.

My thoughts exactly with IJ180cv3. 48 hours offgassing on a fan and still too gooey and unworkable. (Ink limits may be partially to blame) Bubbles out of nowhere that get trapped in the channels drive me nuts.

What issues did you encounter that make you say Avery doesn't last? I've always been a bit leery about making the switch, but I was really impressed by how it behaved on the last couple trucks we just did. Initial tack is zero, but after proper pressure and post heat the bond seems really good.