Anyone have success tiling banners on the HP Latex 260?

[elay2433]

Just got an HP Latex 260 with the hopes that it will replace one of the Epson GS6000s we're running. We do a lot of oversized banners (anywhere from 6'-20' high by x length), so we're often tiling. The Epsons perform pretty admirably in this respect. I will see a difference in tile lengths when running, for example, a 15'x40' banner, but I'd written that off as being caused by the varying weight of the media (i.e. the banner roll is heavier while printing tile 1 vs. panel 3). The difference between the tiles on such a banner might have been as much as a quarter inch, give or take, and I only typically saw that much difference between panels in similar scenarios (where I was printing all or most of a roll). If, on the other hand, I was tiling a 6'x20' banner ( (2) 3'x20' panels), I'd see little if any difference in tile lengths.

Got my first tiled banner off on the HP Latex 260 -- a 6'x20' banner -- and the difference in tiles was over half an inch. Fortunately the image was forgiving and so I was able to make it work. But I hesitate to run anything else that needs to be tiled on this printer. Any one have any luck with tiling banners on the HP Latex 260?

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

if you flip each panel it should even out... We've done tiled banners 8'x32' and it was only 1/8" difference on a L25500... now we just sub the headaches out.

 

[elay2433]

Thanks for the reply. I keep the "flip every other tile" box checked in Onyx for every print, and this banner was no exception, so that wasn't the issue. I'd heard that the Latex 260 had challenges with banner media, but that all that had been worked out. I like to hope that this is operator error somehow and not an inherent flaw in this particular printer. We've been told to try a different (more expensive) banner media. That'll be my first step in troubleshooting this. Still, I'd like to hear from anyone running this particular model printer about their experience tiling banners.

Thanks,

Jerry

 

[Fastsigns2041]

Yeah, it's not the most accurate machine, even the manual says banner length can vary up to 2%. I'd imagine its from the relatively high temps on lighter or cheap banner material. I've never had panels off by more than 1/4" over 20' but I still try to seam where there's empty space.

In Onyx' media manager there's a setting for vertical length correction where it will print a 3 foot long(or how however long you want) stripe and then you enter the length that actually printed.

 

[elay2433]

Thanks for your reply. I was running Duratex banner media, which is Pitman's (an Agfa company) house brand. Good, inexpensive 13 oz. banner media that's about 9 cents cheaper per sq. ft. than Ultraflex and prints beautifully in the HP Latex 260 so long as you're not tiling. Ultraflex (13 oz.) is the material we were urged to try in an attempt to remedy the varying tile length issue.

I printed an 8'x16' banner on Ultraflex this morning (13 oz.) and received less variation in tile length: about 1/8'' across the 16', which is acceptable for us.

Something else I noticed, which concerns me, is that the color shifts from one tile to the next. It did this on both the Duratex and Ultraflex. Not a huge shift, but enough to worry me. On the Duratex I flipped the tile in Onyx. For the Ultraflex, in hopes of ruling out the RIP as a culprit, I tiled the banner (and rotated the second tile) myself in Illustrator.

Signdesigner1, if you don't mind my asking, what banner material do you use? Also, do you see much shift in color.

I've got a fleet of 28' trailers coming up soon and I'd intended to use the HP Latex 260. Part of the reason we got it to replace the Epson GS6000 was because of the extended ink longevity (the HP is supposed to have a year or better longevity than the GS6000). But if tiling self-adhesive vinyl on the HP is as challenging as the banner has been (and the color shift persists), I'll have to stick with the GS6000.

Sorry for the long-winded reply, and thanks for the input.

Jerry

 

[dypinc]

The must frustrating thing lately has been the inconsistent coatings on media. Running Ultraflex Blockout LTX yesterday there were inconsistencies in the coat at different place in the roll sometimes from left to right as it was printing. I wonder if this is more noticeable with Latex inks in the way it dries.

 

[FrankW]

Try the following:

On the right side of the printer, below the window at the front panel, you will find a small silver tube (enclosed picture shows the same situation on a 280). This is an infrared temperature sensor.

If possible arrange your print that the sensor do not measure on printed area. As soon as this sensor measure permanently on media white (or on printed area of the same colour overall), you will have a much more accurate printing length.

but, printing length accuracy depends on the media itself too.

 

[Fastsigns2041]

I print on Grimco's Forward Banner, 13oz matte finish. I don't have any color shift between the left and right side of the machine, if that's what you mean about shift on tiled banners. On my old 25500 sometimes the left side would not be as dry as the right side on heavy coverage, but I haven't had this problem with my newer 26500.

I printed out wraps for a fleet of 20' trailers which are primarily black and gold with no color shift issues (tiled and flipped with onyx) on 180cv3.

 

[elay2433]

If possible arrange your print that the sensor do not measure on printed area.

Hi Frank. Typically this is not an option for me, since I'm usually using the entire banner surface and they're rarely solid colors (especially toward the edge where the sensor is). Thanks for the info though.

 

[elay2433]

I printed out wraps for a fleet of 20' trailers which are primarily black and gold with no color shift issues (tiled and flipped with onyx) on 180cv3.

Hi Signdesigner1. We're using 180cv3 here too, so that gives me hope. Did you have any issue with varying length between panels with the 180cv3?

Regarding the color shift, I did mean between the left and right side (although I did see a shift from front to back on one of the tiled banners as well). I may give the Grimco a shot and see if I have any better luck.

Thanks for the info.

Jerry

 

[Redfield]

Our L26500 has those issues. Haven't solved them completely but here are a few suggestions.

Use Onyx Scale Adjust to fix the length issue. The heat causes the material to shrink and this helps fix that problem. Run it on each material you use.

On tiles and color shifting... This machine is temperamental. We usually have issues on the left side of the machine. Turn on the extra printhead cleaning is one option. It'll burn out the printhead cleaning kit faster but does help. Another thing I've done is to tile manually using photoshop/illustrator. I haven't rotated files 180 since I've done it this way. If there is a color shift its so minimal most people don't even notice.

 

[Fastsigns2041]

I haven't had any issues length wise with the 180cv3, and I've always flipped the tiles on every printer I've used.

Are you printing gutters on the sides of your prints? It may help to compare the front and end of the print to see if you are losing nozzles during long prints, which extra ph cleaning can help with.

 

[InkJet]

Hi elay2433, most of the comments are correct when it pertains to the quality of the banner material. The less expensive substrates (Lighter weight) tend to shrink more than the heavier banners. But there are a few ways that you can correct for this issue. A) Media Profile - Lowering the temperatures will help, but you will need to increase the passes in order to maintain a good color gamut. B) RiP settings - within the RiP there are setting to offset this printed lenghts. In Onxy, it is within the media manager. You will need to measure out the printed media, then enter those values (HxW) then enter the desires demensions(HxW). This suggestion was also mentioned by Signdesigner1 and Redfield.
In regards to the color shift, continue flipping every other tile and you might want to try adding time to the interswath delay. This usually helps on solid colors. I hope these suggestions help.

 

[elay2433]

Thanks everyone. I'll try your suggestions. Had a little better luck switching profiles (using an HP banner profile for Ultraflex and Duratex). On average the panels tend to be closer in length, the color issue/change is less prominent, and the overall print quality was better (even at 6 pass). So I'm liking all that. Weird thing is that I'm not getting any consistency. Had two 8'x16' banners to run. First one lined up perfectly, with perhaps a 1/16'' difference in the two panel lengths. Second one was off by 5/16''. The seam went right through copy, though it was large and so we were able to kind of split the difference and make it work. But I will try your suggestions. Thanks again everyone.