Need Help Barcode Detection Issues on Reflective Media – HP Latex 630W / Summa S3 / Onyx Go 25

[MattRichie]

Hello folks!

I’ve been trying to print-and-cut on reflective material using an HP Latex 630W and a Summa S3 Dual Head cutter. Our current workflow uses Onyx Go 25 with the barcode option for the Summa to read the cut job.

The issue we’re encountering is that the background markings color is bleeding into the barcode (photo attached — white = background, black = barcode). Even after performing a media calibration to account for the reflective material, the Summa’s OPOS sensor is unable to read the barcode.

I’ve also tried:

• Reversing the colors (white barcode on black background)
• Using Cyan, Magenta, and Yellow for the markings

Unfortunately, none of these attempts were successful.

I contacted Onyx Go support, and they mentioned that the background markings option is limited and does not support underflood for the background. They also indicated there are no plans to improve or fix this in the future....grrrrr (╬▔皿▔)╯

I have also tried using the reflective material guide that Summa provides on their website, but the guide and optic filter were created for an older model of their S class cutter ಠ╭╮ಠ

https://support.summa.eu/support/so...8-summacut-print-cut-jobs-on-reflective-media

At this point, I’m at a standstill and have two questions:

1. Is there a troubleshooting step I might be missing to get the Summa’s OPOS sensor to reliably read the barcode?
   Ideally, I’d like to stay within the Onyx workflow and avoid switching to Summa’s native software.
2. Onyx Go support mentioned an alternative involving manual cutting that does not use barcodes.
   Can anyone clarify how this works and whether it’s a viable solution for reflective media?

I apologize if this is easily found information or if there’s a simple solution I’m overlooking. This HP Latex / Summa / Onyx Go workflow is completely new to both me and my team.

Any help or suggestions on next steps would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Matt

P.S. wasn't sure where to post this, hopefully I got it in the right topic.

 

[ecilop]

The barcode looks readable to me. I am not at all familiar with your cutter. We use a Summa F1612 which has an option to read barcode on vinyl with mask. Does yours have that option. I am assuming the reflectiveness is preventing your cutter from reading the barcode. Maybe if you mask it and see if your cutter will read the barcode through the mask???
Just a very uneducated guess.

 

[fbert]

Hi Matt,
When you say Summa S3 Dual Head I suppose you mean the model with cutting and crease head. This model has a camera instead of the opos sensor, and should be the right choice to read markers and barcodes on reflective media. But the suggestion to put a filter a for the old S class cutters, would not fit on this particular model.
If I supposed right (S3 Class with camera, also called TC), it's important to update the machine firmware, as the first revisions were not so good reading the barcode also on white background.
Unfortunately the media calibration run by the machine is limited, as it's only reading the media reflection. When you run the media calibration it returns a value or an error? You could try to play with the given value, increasing or decreasing it by some unit, looking to find a magic number that reads the barcode. Trial and error method here...
With the Summa GoSign software (not with the free version) you could adjust other camera filters and parameters and probalby find the correct combination.
Anyway as you would like to avoid the Summa software, I can suggest you to print yellow barcode and markers, without any white background. We had surprisingly good outcomes reading yellow markers and barcodes on a reflective media.
OTOH if you model has the opos sensor and not the camera, you can try with the filter on the bottom of the sensor, but would be not easy to get a good calibration value.

Regards

 

[Kev-O-Rama]

I'm no bar code expert by any means, but I was able to create 3" tall readable bar codes from 40 ft away using a white reflective vinyl background w/ black bars printed over it. In the context of everything already written, I'm not sure how this would fit, but I'll throw this out there: the white background may be reflecting back to the gun such that it can't distinguish between the reflective vinyl and the white? I don't know. Following, though.

 

[fbert]

I'm no bar code expert by any means, but I was able to create 3" tall readable bar codes from 40 ft away using a white reflective vinyl background w/ black bars printed over it. In the context of everything already written, I'm not sure how this would fit, but I'll throw this out there: the white background may be reflecting back to the gun such that it can't distinguish between the reflective vinyl and the white? I don't know. Following, though.

I thimk that the issue is the capability of Summa cutter to read the barcode to cut a printed job, not the readability of a barcode by a gun.

 

[Kev-O-Rama]

ahshit. my bad.

 

[balstestrat]

You can always send the job from cutserver manually and you will completely bypass the barcode.

 

[MattRichie]

Hi Matt,
When you say Summa S3 Dual Head I suppose you mean the model with cutting and crease head. This model has a camera instead of the opos sensor, and should be the right choice to read markers and barcodes on reflective media. But the suggestion to put a filter a for the old S class cutters, would not fit on this particular model.
If I supposed right (S3 Class with camera, also called TC), it's important to update the machine firmware, as the first revisions were not so good reading the barcode also on white background.
Unfortunately the media calibration run by the machine is limited, as it's only reading the media reflection. When you run the media calibration it returns a value or an error? You could try to play with the given value, increasing or decreasing it by some unit, looking to find a magic number that reads the barcode. Trial and error method here...
With the Summa GoSign software (not with the free version) you could adjust other camera filters and parameters and probalby find the correct combination.
Anyway as you would like to avoid the Summa software, I can suggest you to print yellow barcode and markers, without any white background. We had surprisingly good outcomes reading yellow markers and barcodes on a reflective media.
OTOH if you model has the opos sensor and not the camera, you can try with the filter on the bottom of the sensor, but would be not easy to get a good calibration value.

Regards

Hey!

I'm not entirely sure what camera is on the Summa LOL, I know it's called a Summa S3-Class T in Onyx so you might be correct with the unit I have. What's weird is that it shows I have the option of adjusting the OPOS sensor in the settings; The value I usually get from the media calibration is between +60 & +80, not entirely sure what the positive and negative values mean?¿

I haven't checked if the software has been updated since we got it out of the box and I'm not sure if the technician updated it either... could be the answer to my issue. Thinking of it now it makes sense it wouldn't update automatically lolol.

Afterward I check for the update, I'll try the yellow markers without a background and revert back.

Thanks,

Matt

 

[MattRichie]

The barcode looks readable to me. I am not at all familiar with your cutter. We use a Summa F1612 which has an option to read barcode on vinyl with mask. Does yours have that option. I am assuming the reflectiveness is preventing your cutter from reading the barcode. Maybe if you mask it and see if your cutter will read the barcode through the mask???
Just a very uneducated guess.

Hey,

The mask is a great idea, however I would like to have the machine be able to read the barcode print jobs without extra steps to ensure smooth operation by the other members of our team.

I was actually using extra vinyl material on the backside of the reflective material to create a background for awhile to get around this issue LOL, not ideal long term unfortunately.

Regards,

Matt

 

[MattRichie]

You can always send the job from cutserver manually and you will completely bypass the barcode.

Hi!

Is that another cut option within Onyx? How would I go about doing that? Also could it start the cut from anywhere and know where to go or do you have to line it up as best as possible prior to starting the cut?

Matt

 

[balstestrat]

Hi!

Is that another cut option within Onyx? How would I go about doing that? Also could it start the cut from anywhere and know where to go or do you have to line it up as best as possible prior to starting the cut?

Matt

Select the job and hit cut now. It will skip the barcode but use the corner marks to align.

 

[MattRichie]

Select the job and hit cut now. It will skip the barcode but use the corner marks to align.

I've tried this and it still requires to read the barcode, is there an option on the cut server I should deselect. Would automatic mark detection affect this?

 

[MattRichie]

Hi Matt,
When you say Summa S3 Dual Head I suppose you mean the model with cutting and crease head. This model has a camera instead of the opos sensor, and should be the right choice to read markers and barcodes on reflective media. But the suggestion to put a filter a for the old S class cutters, would not fit on this particular model.
If I supposed right (S3 Class with camera, also called TC), it's important to update the machine firmware, as the first revisions were not so good reading the barcode also on white background.
Unfortunately the media calibration run by the machine is limited, as it's only reading the media reflection. When you run the media calibration it returns a value or an error? You could try to play with the given value, increasing or decreasing it by some unit, looking to find a magic number that reads the barcode. Trial and error method here...
With the Summa GoSign software (not with the free version) you could adjust other camera filters and parameters and probalby find the correct combination.
Anyway as you would like to avoid the Summa software, I can suggest you to print yellow barcode and markers, without any white background. We had surprisingly good outcomes reading yellow markers and barcodes on a reflective media.
OTOH if you model has the opos sensor and not the camera, you can try with the filter on the bottom of the sensor, but would be not easy to get a good calibration value.

Regards

Hey!

I'm not entirely sure what camera is on the Summa LOL, I know it's called a Summa S3-Class T in Onyx so you might be correct with the unit I have. What's weird is that it shows I have the option of adjusting the OPOS sensor in the settings; The value I usually get from the media calibration is between +60 & +80, not entirely sure what the positive and negative values mean?¿

I haven't checked if the software has been updated since we got it out of the box and I'm not sure if the technician updated it either... could be the answer to my issue. Thinking of it now it makes sense it wouldn't update automatically lolol.

Afterward I check for the update, I'll try the yellow markers without a background and revert back.

Thanks,

Matt

I've tried this and it still requires to read the barcode, is there an option on the cut server I should deselect. Would automatic mark detection affect this?

Hello all,

So I tried printing the yellow barcode and fiddling around with the OPOS sensor on the machine and ended up seeing the barcodes on the camera between-30 & -40 OR +30 & +40. (+30 is the default value)

Unfortunately either one of two things are happening: A) It does not detect any markings (either barcode or corner marks via CUTserver) whatsoever, or B) it detects the first corner marking but refuses to read the second marking.

My next step is to print a barcode on some vinyl and compare the camera screens to see what I should be looking for on the reflective material.

fbert you mentioned going into the summa go sign software and adjusting filters, parameters. Am I able to adjust these settings to apply permanently or will it have to be adjusted per cut job?

 

[fbert]

Matt,
the short answer to your last question is "it depends" as you could apply these settings to the specific cut job or having them saved in a camera profile that could be applied to a specific material.
Anyway, to understand if (a big if) the GoSign filters could help to detect the barcode and marks, you should check that you have a TC model, as the flters settings works with this specific model only.
On the left cover of the cutter should be a label: on the attached images the S3T160 is a model without camera and cannot be adjusted by GoSign. The S3TC75 has the camera and can be adjusted by GoSign. If your cutter label is TC (don't mind the number), the GoSign filters can be applied.
As I posted previously, the filters are enabled only with the ProPack license (not free, but you have a 30 days try before you buy). I suggest you to read the GoSign manual to understand as it works and decide if it would be worth the hassle to move the cutting from Onyx. At this link you can download a video of our 75TC reading barcode and marks and cutting on a nearly mirroring media following an action made in GoSign.
By the way it's strange that your default value is 30, mine is 50. FWIW, I succesfully detected barcode and marks on that nearly mirroring media with a OPOS value of 12.

 

[MattRichie]

---

Hey everyone,

Just an update on this issue.

It turns out that Onyx Go doesn’t support camera settings for the Summa cutter at all, and media calibration on the cutter alone isn’t enough to resolve the problem nor are the background markings Onyx provides.

On top of that, Summa has moved the camera settings from the Cutter Control app into GoSign, which means I’ll need to incorporate GoSign into our workflow instead of keeping everything fully within Onyx (ಥ_ಥ)

That said, it does seem like GoSign will open up a lot more possibilities for future applications, it’s just unfortunate that reflective material turned out to be such a challenge.

Thanks to everyone for the information and discussion around this topic, it is greatly appreciated!

Matt

 

[MattRichie]

Matt,
the short answer to your last question is "it depends" as you could apply these settings to the specific cut job or having them saved in a camera profile that could be applied to a specific material.
Anyway, to understand if (a big if) the GoSign filters could help to detect the barcode and marks, you should check that you have a TC model, as the flters settings works with this specific model only.
On the left cover of the cutter should be a label: on the attached images the S3T160 is a model without camera and cannot be adjusted by GoSign. The S3TC75 has the camera and can be adjusted by GoSign. If your cutter label is TC (don't mind the number), the GoSign filters can be applied.
As I posted previously, the filters are enabled only with the ProPack license (not free, but you have a 30 days try before you buy). I suggest you to read the GoSign manual to understand as it works and decide if it would be worth the hassle to move the cutting from Onyx. At this link you can download a video of our 75TC reading barcode and marks and cutting on a nearly mirroring media following an action made in GoSign.
By the way it's strange that your default value is 30, mine is 50. FWIW, I succesfully detected barcode and marks on that nearly mirroring media with a OPOS value of 12.

Sorry, my default OPOS value was 50 as well lol!

Regarding the cutter, it is a S3TC160 model. I tried playing around with go sign with pro pack enabled, the camera is a lot more consistent now with reflective material. I plan to play around with the software this weekend and incorporate it into the workflow.

Matt

 

[LMT-John]

Hi Matt, have you tried a yellow filter on opus sensor? Contrast will be better, Summa got some in stock.

John

 

[balstestrat]

Hi Matt, have you tried a yellow filter on opus sensor? Contrast will be better, Summa got some in stock.

John

He has camera....