Best Shop Management Software for Working with Multiple Product Catogories

[Bikeson22]

What do you all use for shop management software when working with multiple product categories (sign making, screen printing, paper products, embroidery, etc.…)? What is the best way to make sure that things are being passed through the pipeline to different people efficiently and making sure information isn't getting missed?

 

[CanuckSigns]

I had real issues trying to find an off the shelf product that worked for us for similar reasons, we do printing, engraving, cast plaques and a few other things all with different workflows. All the software companies say it's easy to set up and not an issue, but I never found it to work.

In the end I had a custom app made in filemaker and it's been working well for me.

 

[ColorCrest]

ColorCrest is now a Merchant Member.

 

[ColorCrest]

What is the best way to make sure that things are being passed through the pipeline to different people efficiently and making sure information isn't getting missed?

A sign shop has very few departments, generally. A "WIP List" is available to workstations and oftentimes displayed on rather large flatscreens in general work areas. The list has row for each order and a column for each of the production departments with indicators signaling the status of each order. The WIP list can show work being performed simultaneously in separate departments. When a row is signaled as completed, a manager or bookkeeper moves the listed work order from the display to an archive for billing and historical reference. The system essentially stems from quotes, work orders, and invoices as well as product lists, components, suppliers, etc., along with any necessary correspondence.

 

[ColorCrest]

In the end I had a custom app made in filemaker and it's been working well for me

FileMaker is a so-called "no code, low code" rapid database development platform and has been a wholly owned Apple subsidiary since 1987. Curiously, there are far more Windows users of the application than Mac users, as it is cross-platform. Ideally, databases are hosted by using FileMaker Server running on either dedicated Mac, Window, or Linux machines.

A few benefits of FileMaker is one might develop their own software tools if they find the time, or they can delegate in-house help, or they might hire-out for coaching, or they might hire-out entirely. I know of only a single ready-made FileMaker solution adapted to sign shops and that's named JobPro Central from Ireland. Otherwise, most shops customize their solution one way or another.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

ColorCrest is now a Merchant Member.

View attachment 166663

I'd be interested in your Filemaker solution, can you send me some more info?

 

[ColorCrest]

I'd be interested in your Filemaker solution, can you send me some more info?

Christian, more info coming soon as time permits. There will be options as opposed to just a single FileMaker solution.

Maybe say more about anything in particular you might be interested in?

 

[Humble PM]

FileMaker is a so-called "no code, low code" rapid database development platform and has been a wholly owned Apple subsidiary since 1987. Curiously, there are far more Windows users of the application than Mac users, as it is cross-platform. Ideally, databases are hosted by using FileMaker Server running on either dedicated Mac, Window, or Linux machines.

We're in the process of updating our aged (FM12) database - I'd been wondering about the advantages of continuing to host on premises or in cloud. One of the things we're looking at is connections to our website (simple product orders) as well as out to our accounts software (sage cloud). Would you recommend remaining on prem?

 

[ColorCrest]

Would you recommend remaining on prem?

IMHO, the best decision depends mainly upon reliability of your current internet connection and any readily available IT person or a cloud provider's service ability. Cloud will always be more safe so far as disasters, except maybe the final one.

 

[ColorCrest]

We're in the process of updating our aged (FM12) database

When you say FM12, is that actually your current FM version number or do you really use a newer version? The FM extension of .fmp12 was introduced year 2012 and that extension is still current. However, the face version of FM is currently at FM19 through FM2023.

 

[White Haus]

Christian, more info coming soon as time permits. There will be options as opposed to just a single FileMaker solution.

Can't wait to learn more about this!

 

[Humble PM]

When you say FM12, is that actually your current FM version number or do you really use a newer version? The FM extension of .fmp12 was introduced year 2012 and that extension is still current. However, the face version of FM is currently at FM19 through FM2023.

Just checked, (and Gulp) FMpro11. I've done test openings, and latest desktop version has no problem with the data.

I'm thinking of just using the Filemaker hosting, as our IT department wears many hats, but I'd hate to miss out on any major advantages by being on prem. We're moving locations shortly, but the new site should have solid fibre connection as long as it's installed by move date.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

ColorCrest, I'm mainly looking for something g more accurate and dynamic than the other products out there.

I really want a system that will update costing a on a PO entry, and allow for data entry of print speeds and etc for real-world calculations. I also want the product builder to allow for multiple units of measure on one product (I.e. area, linear, perimeter, etc.)

 

[ColorCrest]

I really want a system that will update costing a on a PO entry, and allow for data entry of print speeds and etc for real-world calculations.

Time trials of production processes along with other gauged data are entered as basic portions of calculations for product components to update costs and eventual pricing. So, if components go up in price, so goes any product dependent upon the component.

I also want the product builder to allow for multiple units of measure on one product (I.e. area, linear, perimeter, etc.)

A single product is usually calculated via a certain recipe using certain units of measure. A line item can use additional factors, size and qty for example, which determine the volumes of components necessary to create the product. The units of measure, say linear feet, will be used as opposed to optionally use square feet. If the product is to use square feet for some reason, a separate product would be created using a different name and the two would show in a product list. (I think I understand your question correctly.)

Although a typical sign print product might be simply made of sticky-back vinyl, a product list available to a CSR would show many options because a decision is required to use a certain type of vinyl from a certain width of roll stock, listed separately of course. The list is alphanumeric dependent for sorting and grouping, thus a strict naming convention is necessary. So, let's say 3 roll widths are available, but there is also an option for lamination. That begets 6 products in the list for a single, simple print product. Additional vinyl types and laminate types and substrate types and turnaround times and more cause the product list to grow immensely. Again, strict names and the computer system help parse such lists greatly.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

Time trials of production processes along with other gauged data are entered as basic portions of calculations for product components to update costs and eventual pricing. So, if components go up in price, so goes any product dependent upon the component.


A single product is usually calculated via a certain recipe using certain units of measure. A line item can use additional factors, size and qty for example, which determine the volumes of components necessary to create the product. The units of measure, say linear feet, will be used as opposed to optionally use square feet. If the product is to use square feet for some reason, a separate product would be created using a different name and the two would show in a product list. (I think I understand your question correctly.)

Although a typical sign print product might be simply made of sticky-back vinyl, a product list available to a CSR would show many options because a decision is required to use a certain type of vinyl from a certain width of roll stock, listed separately of course. The list is alphanumeric dependent for sorting and grouping, thus a strict naming convention is necessary. So, let's say 3 roll widths are available, but there is also an option for lamination. That begets 6 products in the list for a single, simple print product. Additional vinyl types and laminate types and substrate types and turnaround times and more cause the product list to grow immensely. Again, strict names and the computer system help parse such lists greatly.

This is the problem, a simple product say decals, requires the use of 3+ different calculations for accuracy.

Materials should be Linear to include waste.
Printers could be Area or Linear.
Printer consumables are typically volume or a conversion of volume to area.
Laminators are typically Linear to match materials.
Cutters are best calculated using perimeter equations.
Then there are other factors that may require each, volume, or some other calculation.

The issue is most systems out in the wild do not handle this mixed-measure environment well.

As for my prior request on time trialing and PO inputs, I'm looking for a more fluid way to do it in a logical fashion. So not as a uneventful I must go update my calcs, but more of a We are recording time on each job and inputting POs so the system with algoritmically update the rates and ratios dynamically with real life data. And if not automatically at least prompt with suggested updates and the ability to commit those updates.

 

[ColorCrest]

a simple product say decals, requires the use of 3+ different calculations for accuracy.

The nature of custom, made-to-order widget fabrication. Fortunately, measuring the processes only need updating occasionally if done properly to begin with.

The issue is most systems out in the wild do not handle this mixed-measure environment well.

I can see the majors like Cyrious, ShopVox, and I suspect CoreBridge, offer the so-called "parts" list of components costed and priced accordingly for each line item on quotes and orders. The components are machines, labors, and materials. Standard information. Onyx was supposed to open their system to access real-time data but it *seems* they've kept that for themselves as a pay to play optional service.

We are recording time on each job

Sounds as if you're gauging estimates against finished results. Such chores are usually left to large and lengthy fabrication projects.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

The nature of custom, made-to-order widget fabrication. Fortunately, measuring the processes only need updating occasionally if done properly to begin with.


I can see the majors like Cyrious, ShopVox, and I suspect CoreBridge, offer the so-called "parts" list of components costed and priced accordingly for each line item on quotes and orders. The components are machines, labors, and materials. Standard information. Onyx was supposed to open their system to access real-time data but it *seems* they've kept that for themselves as a pay to play optional service.


Sounds as if you're gauging estimates against finished results. Such chores are usually left to large and lengthy fabrication projects.

I think we are diverging paths. For your first response, every order we do requires mixed-measure calculations. I'm not a set SQFT price and go-with-it guy. I want to know what the job costs me to the price we charge.

Those guys have those dynamics, but none handle mixed-measure calculating well at all. I was on Cyrious and left for SignVox, Left ShopVox after the conversion to CoreBridge, left Corebridge back to ShopVox again and found more major flaws, so now I seek to find/build a more custom solution. I worked with Onyx early on in their MIS development and there is huge potential there, but right now it's being built as a direct competitor to these other solutions so they can expand their ecosystem. Onyx does have an API through Hub that gives access to that info.

I don't want those estimates to actuals to be a chore, if any of these project management systems were smart, they already have that data when our users start and stop stations on the workflow. It must be calculated against the estimates and have a path to update the baseline values when changes are measured. I do not agree that it should only be on lengthy projects; it should be every project that data should compile, it just needs to happen automatically via software, not intently by a person.

I can tell you why, too. For years, I have been updating my calculations and fine-tuning our costing. I kept getting complaints from my team that things were off on our costing. So, on a recent project, I discovered a few things: ShopVox has a fatal flaw in handling a numerical threshold... If something calculates below .001 (i.e .0009), it treats it like 0, doesn't calculate the cost, and hides the process from a work order. This issue then compounded to how it calculated so low when my team told me it was significantly more. Well, that led me to do designed result tests on our Multicam Celero 7 to discover that the smaller the object the increasingly slower the machine runs, paired with the more points that ratio drops again. So a machine that in prior testing would show us throughput speeds of 3-5,000 IPM perimeter cutting speeds, on these projects was only giving us 300-400 IPM. That is magnitudes of time not accounted for because no system was monitoring it. In research, there is not one Sign related MIS or ERP system that handles that currently, even though for years my team has been hitting start and stop on workflow process steps capturing that time.... none of the systems out there have an easy-to-access report or intelligence to let someone know that calculations are off.

 

[ColorCrest]

I think we are diverging paths

No, I follow, I think it's just a matter of how we get to a consensus.

I'm not a set SQFT price and go-with-it guy. I want to know what the job costs me to the price we charge.

Of course.

Those guys have those dynamics, but none handle mixed-measure calculating well at all.

From my perspective, I believe the data *can* be there but their presentation of the data is problematic.

I don't want those estimates to actuals to be a chore

Just FYI and again from from my perspective, there is a difference in meaning of terminology between an estimate and a quote. Better left for another time, but soon.

if any of these project management systems were smart, they already have that data when our users start

Smart shops would run trials using scenarios with one or more of the scenarios being stress tests, sometimes at trade show events. Some charm, and maybe some clout, might get a shop a demo machine long enough to serve as useful R&D for the manufacturer to learn how to build superior products.

So far as trials, I have an acquaintance who is a very successful but retired small shop owner. From Texas and a former math teacher, he took over the shop from his father here in SoCal. One morning over coffee, I made him laugh out loud when I raised a point about such calculations were only arithmetic and not math. As a math expert, he explained the virtues of running trials and arriving at averages strong enough to trust no further study was necessary due to diminished returns.

More later.

 

[Stacey K]

Simpleton here. I use SignTracker. I make signs, screen print, embroidery, banners, decals. I have all my print materials entered as linear and square foot depending on what they are. There are task lists for your employees, several kinds of calendars, lists, place for details, photo storage, etc. I really like it.

 

[ColorCrest]

now I seek to find/build a more custom solution

Christian,

Without dissecting the many points of your post, I can say that I fully understand them all and can confidently say I likely have an existing solution so far as manually updating the necessary data points you're looking for. It's not "automatic" at this time simply because live data links to machinery are not yet available, as far as I'm aware. Of course it runs using FileMaker and the current form factor is basically a single (non-scrolling) screen layout of all the mixes of unit of measure, can be used via touch screen by operators if need be, and may be vastly customized. Apparently, its form is one you may not have been exposed to by any other solution.

So, would you be happier to "find" this or "build" this?

Let me know.