Color Difference Indesign/Corel

[MPrint]

We have a frequent signage client whose main color is bright orange yellow. If I output their artwork from Corel the colors are different from colors output from Indesign. For this one job I must use Indesign but I'd like to get similar results when outputting from Corel. The color mixtures have the same CMYK values. As far as I can tell the output settings are the same.

Attached is an output comparison photo showing a richer color from the Indesign output, and a pic showing the color settings side by side in the two applications.

Any help or even ideas are appreciated.

 

[Solventinkjet]

What does your workflow look like? For example, are you opening the original customer provided file in Corel and InDesign directly or do you open it in Corel, convert it to some file type, and then open it in InDesign? When you save the print ready file from each software, are you saving it as the same file type?

 

[MPrint]

What does your workflow look like? For example, are you opening the original customer provided file in Corel and InDesign directly or do you open it in Corel, convert it to some file type, and then open it in InDesign? When you save the print ready file from each software, are you saving it as the same file type?

I received the original art as Indesign files and worked and output pdf from Indesign, on the first set of signs.

Months later when producing new signage I tried to rebuild the file in Corel Draw using the same color mixtures but could not get the same result as working in Indesign. I have tried to import a pdf from Indesign into Corel but this still produces the same dull color.

I use pdf output for this job regardless of the origin. Only one of our computers has Indesign and I'm the only person here that knows how to use it. I'm trying to make it so anyone can make changes to this job on any art computer in the office using Corel.

 

[Solventinkjet]

So you output a PDF from InDesign and it prints how you want, but as soon as you bring it into Corel, it gets dull. It sounds like something is getting converted during the Corel import. Have you tried both ways of opening the PDF in Corel? Corel handles how color is handled differently between the two. I would try that out and see if one works and the other doesn't. That would point to where the issue is.

What type of file is this? All vector, all bitmap, or mixed?

 

[MPrint]

So you output a PDF from InDesign and it prints how you want, but as soon as you bring it into Corel, it gets dull. It sounds like something is getting converted during the Corel import. Have you tried both ways of opening the PDF in Corel? Corel handles how color is handled differently between the two. I would try that out and see if one works and the other doesn't. That would point to where the issue is.

What type of file is this? All vector, all bitmap, or mixed?

The artwork is all vecftor.

I have both imported an Indesign pdf and recreated the signs from scratch in Corel using the same color mixtures. The result is the same. Duller colors. Had I realized this was going to happen I'd have done the initial output from Corel. I have not yet remixed the color in Corel, was hoping I could make it work through the color settings somehow. Fortunately it is just this one job.

 

[MrDav3C]

I think this a gradient / fountain fill?

If so, I think it's to do with how CorelDraw is handling the file and interpreting how the colour changes or any effects that have been put on the colour.

I'm a big CorelDraw fan and use it for pretty much everything but unfortunately gradients and transparency type effects never seem to be quite as good as what you can get from Adobe.

I think at times when we import from illustrator into Corel that any transparency effects appear as a bitmap on top of the image and rarely display correctly.

Perhaps try putting a white block on top of the colour and play with the transparency of it to see if you can make it look more like the original?

 

[Bobby H]

Does the customer's original InDesign document have a mix of RGB and CMYK elements in it? It's possible the client artwork has some RGB elements in it, such as that orange gradient fill in the background. That element and others may be getting compressed and altered into CMYK color space during the PDF export process. Exaggerated color shifts get much worse if any transparency effects are involved. If a customer builds artwork in Illustrator or InDesign and uses various transparency effects and transparency blending modes there is really no choice but to keep the artwork in that color model (either CMYK or RGB) all the way to the RIP. Otherwise colors will shift pretty badly.

I really love CorelDRAW for certain kinds of design purposes, but I don't like how it handles gradient fills and transparency effects. I'll often build up a lot of the basics of a design in CorelDRAW, but then take it over into Illustrator to do all the final color work since Illustrator does a far better job with gradients and transparency effects. The only thing I like about CorelDRAW and its gradients is I can drag either end of a gradient fill annotator to any position across the object. Adobe Illustrator doesn't allow that; its current setup is just stupid. Even Affinity Designer will allow easier design work of gradient fills. But Illustrator does a better job outputting those gradients to print. CorelDRAW will often rasterize the damned fills -particularly if the gradient fill has any transparency levels in it. Illustrator keeps it all vector-based.

Anyway, when I get certain Adobe-flavored art files from clients those files confine me to doing all the work in an Adobe environment, be it Illustrator or InDesign. Things could be worse. I have far more hatred for Canva-generated artwork. The worst is all this AI-generated shit lately. ChatGPT needs to be renamed CheatGPT. And it's just jerk-off garbage that ends up being a time-vampire to fix.

BTW, InDesign does not generate edit-friendly PDF files. Those kinds of PDF files are often riddled with all kinds of garbage, be it multiple levels of nested clipping groups, various effects that are flattened and more. The Vector First Aid plugin can't fix all of those problems. Adobe Illustrator is really the only application that saves a PDF that can be edited further -but that's mainly because the app's default settings will append Illustrator data to a PDF.

 

[Ron at Forest Litho]

I see the biggest changer of color is if colors are set up in RGB in the program rather than CMYK. If things are in actual CMYK and you output a CMYK PDF, it is what it is. However, if it is in there as RGB it is now open to the interpretation of the programs converter protocols and I am pretty sure that different programs do it different;y. I have seen Coreldraw radically change an RGB photo if I have it covert to CMYK inside of Corel. Whereas if I convert the photo first in Photoshop and then import the result into Corel, it is better (different). Also, If the PDF is an RGB PDF, you are now open to your PRINTER's rasterizer's interpretation of RGB. As we all know , printers print in CMYK or CMYK+, so it must convert any RGB into Inks before printing. I sometimes use RGB becaue the pics may come out more vibrant, but that is on a test-print-and-see basis.

 

[Think713]

We have a frequent signage client whose main color is bright orange yellow. If I output their artwork from Corel the colors are different from colors output from Indesign. For this one job I must use Indesign but I'd like to get similar results when outputting from Corel. The color mixtures have the same CMYK values. As far as I can tell the output settings are the same.

Attached is an output comparison photo showing a richer color from the Indesign output, and a pic showing the color settings side by side in the two applications.

Any help or even ideas are appreciated.
View attachment 183172 View attachment 183173

If the rendered document is in rgb or cmyk color space that does not match one another, it wont matter if all of your color settings are the same.

 

[Think713]

I see the biggest changer of color is if colors are set up in RGB in the program rather than CMYK. If things are in actual CMYK and you output a CMYK PDF, it is what it is. However, if it is in there as RGB it is now open to the interpretation of the programs converter protocols and I am pretty sure that different programs do it different;y. I have seen Coreldraw radically change an RGB photo if I have it covert to CMYK inside of Corel. Whereas if I convert the photo first in Photoshop and then import the result into Corel, it is better (different). Also, If the PDF is an RGB PDF, you are now open to your PRINTER's rasterizer's interpretation of RGB. As we all know , printers print in CMYK or CMYK+, so it must convert any RGB into Inks before printing. I sometimes use RGB becaue the pics may come out more vibrant, but that is on a test-print-and-see basis.

This...
And on that note, we actually print EVERYTHING in an RGB color space. It just makes for a better gamut representation. If we need to color match a PMS, we do so in that color space. But thats just what we do. Obviously doing things in CMYK is ideal for accuracy. But we definitely lean to RGB for the better vibrancy. I feel like the RGB gamut in general is just bigger and the raster programs are pretty good to getting close to true PMS colors where just strait CMYK does not. However, I do think that is unique to some printers. We have 3 HP's and they all print different so... theres that.

 

[Solventinkjet]

This...
And on that note, we actually print EVERYTHING in an RGB color space. It just makes for a better gamut representation. If we need to color match a PMS, we do so in that color space. But thats just what we do. Obviously doing things in CMYK is ideal for accuracy. But we definitely lean to RGB for the better vibrancy. I feel like the RGB gamut in general is just bigger and the raster programs are pretty good to getting close to true PMS colors where just strait CMYK does not. However, I do think that is unique to some printers. We have 3 HP's and they all print different so... theres that.

It's because modern CMYK printers' gamut is larger than standard process CMYK. RGB is way bigger than CMYK so when you design in RGB, you can take advantage of the wider gamut of the printer and the RIP has more to work with when converting to the printer's gamut.


As for the original post, I would try saving the file as an EPS out of InDesign and open it in Corel. If the color doesn't change, it's most likely the PDF import settings in Corel converting it for some reason.

 

[Think713]

It's because modern CMYK printers' gamut is larger than standard process CMYK. RGB is way bigger than CMYK so when you design in RGB, you can take advantage of the wider gamut of the printer and the RIP has more to work with when converting to the printer's gamut.


As for the original post, I would try saving the file as an EPS out of InDesign and open it in Corel. If the color doesn't change, it's most likely the PDF import settings in Corel converting it for some reason.

Yea.... I know. Thanks for explaining to me what I just said...