Rant Customer Rant

[Goatshaver]

Not sign related, but I don't have any peers to talk to about this. So a couple of months ago I had a customer reach out about doing a bunch of work through me. It was a great opportunity to have a bigger customer than I normally do and potentially open up other customer referrals for more work. They wanted to do 20k labels. I laid out what I needed from them and approximate turnaround times for the orders, asked if they planned ahead for order and they said yes. They were 3 weeks out from when they wanted these items and asked when I could expect art files and they said "oh we just started designing them today." Already not off to a good start. I ask them a few questions and get zero answers. 5 weeks pass with zero of my emails answered, with very simple questions and quantity breakdown and confirmation on a size, and then they email me saying they're just about ready to get things printed. Ok so I get their quantity breakdowns and such to give them a quote, which was ok'd. Then a week later I get more artwork than I was expecting with no explanation. At this point they need these in 2 weeks to being selling their products. I tell them again turnaround time. One person gives me missing quantities for extra files and I re-quote the job. Ready files for proofing and such, send customer proofs, and they ask about gray tints and if they'll show up properly. (ughh this should've been discussed when they sent the files)
Run a press test for color and the tints don't show up, they build their blacks and grey with 4 colors which make hitting greys sometimes can be challenging. Show them this and they send new files the next day to reprocess. At this point they are needed these a week from now. All of a sudden one person chimes in to say the extra files aren't being printed this round. (WTF seriously?!)

I've hit the end of the rope with dealing with these folks. After this job is done I will not produce anything else for them because of this whole experience. lack of planning, terrible communication and just all-round confusing with people giving me conflicting info. I want to get their job done and to them as soon as possible, but I'm so stressed out trying to keep this moving smoothly and they don't seem to understand a timeline for doing this stuff. I care about the work I put out but dealing with these folks is driving me insane because I take my work personally. Just trying to find a way to tell them, without sounding like an a$$hole, that after this I do not want to work with them because of these issues unless they can assure me it'll be smoother next time.

Thanks for listening!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Send them to me. I would have just went in to the files, made my own adjustments and pushed the GO button. When you have something in your hand, run with it. You can't wait on other people, but if you do, daily harassments are needed. You can rush me but I will be sure to rush you more.

 

[JBurton]

I feel your pain. Low point of my day, finding out the 40'x3' pipe in the ground is not truly level. Guy who set it said it was 'between the lines'. Guess we'll be building saddles and making cuts in the field to level all of this out. But I wouldn't trade it for a customer with a deadline they can't keep up with themselves...
I'm waiting for your follow up post where they thought you would stick 20k labels for them as they drop ship the products in your parking lot...

 

[ddarlak]

I deal with these situations all the time. These are money makers, simply charge a hell of a lot more.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I've noticed this more and more since COVID, I don't know if it has to do with working from home and not being able to get approvals as quickly. You need to be extra vigilant with your schedule, work backwards from there due date and tell them, "in order to meet your deadline with no additional fees, I need to get the files by x date, when I get them I'll do a printed proof, which I will need approval on by x date" any delay to these dates will result in either rush fees or refusal to do the job.

 

[Johnny Best]

And they might be saying “next time we will buy these through Sticker Mule.”

 

[damonCA21]

It really depends how much the job is worth ( and lets bet they won't pay their invoice on time either ! ).

Lots of companies are useless like this though, they outsource the design to another company, that gets sent back to one department, then sent to another to approve, then they get quotes, that gets sent to accounts to be approved and nobody talks to each other even though they are often all in the same building.

I think we have all had those quotes where we tell them it will take 3 weeks to deliver from the day we get the artwork. They then send the artwork 2 weeks late and ask if we can deliver in a week!

 

[damonCA21]

And they might be saying “next time we will buy these through Sticker Mule.”

Good luck with that. Companies like sticker mule will just print them out 20,000 copies of the label from whatever artwork is sent, so the customer will probably end up with something unusable and not looking how they expected.

Yes, they can be good but they are cheap for a reason. They won't spend the time messing about with these sort of customers

 

[Johnny Best]

Good luck with that. Companies like sticker mule will just print them out 20,000 copies of the label from whatever artwork is sent, so the customer will probably end up with something unusable and not looking how they expected.

Yes, they can be good but they are cheap for a reason. They won't spend the time messing about with these sort of customers

That is the reason they are successful. They do not mess with this sort of customer.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I think it's a simple answer. 3 weeks from approved artwork and deposit. That's it. If that is past their deadline, it's their fault. They're already unorganized and went past their first "deadline". In the end it probably won't matter if it's another 3 weeks. I tell my customers that samples can be made but the turnaround time starts once they approve. Grow a pair of balls and handle these people.

 

[Goatshaver]

I think it's a simple answer. 3 weeks from approved artwork and deposit. That's it. If that is past their deadline, it's their fault. They're already unorganized and went past their first "deadline". In the end it probably won't matter if it's another 3 weeks. I tell my customers that samples can be made but the turnaround time starts once they approve. Grow a pair of balls and handle these people.

Yeah that's where I've gotten to. I've done everything I can to make this smooth as possible and they can't even meet their own deadlines. At this point I'll do my best but I can make them move any faster than they want to at the end of the day. I just take stuff personally because I want the customer to have a good experience at the end of it and be satisfied with their product. I've got to get more strict with rules like that the busier I get.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Yeah that's where I've gotten to. I've done everything I can to make this smooth as possible and they can't even meet their own deadlines. At this point I'll do my best but I can make them move any faster than they want to at the end of the day. I just take stuff personally because I want the customer to have a good experience at the end of it and be satisfied with their product. I've got to get more strict with rules like that the busier I get.

You'll be successful in business with that attitude. Most of your customers will see that and appreciate the way you do business. I don't like when customers are sloppy with the job because I want it to go smooth for them too, but some people bring it on themselves. Just be sure to communicate the rules and set expectations, which it sounds like you're doing. When they mess up and want it in one week and you have e-mails reminding them of the timeframe, they have no one to blame but themselves. Just hold firm and don't stress it... as long as you are doing what you promised that's all they can ask for really.

 

[Bobby H]

You gotta be a hard-a$$ with clients who want to D-I-Y their artwork these days. There is just so much completely unprofessional garbage being produced. Everyone thinks he's a "professional graphic designer" simply because he gets his hands on some applications. These numb-skulls don't know what they're doing. So you have to police that side of it real hard. And then there are the jack-a$$es who don't have any artwork, but they want you to churn out a bunch of design revisions until they see something they like but not pay a dime for it. In their eyes, people who do graphic design work don't have a "real job" and therefore don't deserve to get paid anything. They think the depictions of computer-based tech they see on CSI: Miami is real. Just rattle some gibberish into a computer keyboard and the design spits out instantly.

 

[damonCA21]

DIY artwork is the worst. The amount of times someone sends over a low res small jpeg then says they want it printed 6 feet wide. 'But it looks ok on my computer screen, why can't you print at that size....'

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

The angry Adobe Illustrator artists here have a big chip on their shoulder and hate the customer. They need to keep you guys in a back room away from the clients

 

[Bobby H]

Hate is a pretty strong word. Still, the clients shouldn't get a free ride when we have to repair their bull$#1t "artwork." I mean, we could print it as is, if the project is something that would be printed. Then you have an angry customer. He thinks it's our fault the finished product looks like crap. In other cases we have no choice to fix the artwork (convert the crummy JPEG to vector format, fix other problems, etc). You can't send a JPEG image to a vinyl cutter or a routing table.

But, yeah, a lot of us "Adobe Illustrator artists" aren't happy. The graphic design profession is really not a profession anymore. I'm at the point of being ashamed of having a four year BFA degree from a good art school. I couldn't recommend for someone to attend an art school now with a straight face. At best I'd tell them to take some classes at the local vo-tech. But who does that? Everyone is taking the self-taught route now. I have 30 years of experience in the sign industry. Yet some @$$-hat playing around in Canva thinks he's my equal.

 

[damonCA21]

I agree on your point. It amazes me how many people who run 'sign businesses' can't really do anything other than pretty basic text layout and don't really have any design skills. To me they are both part of the same business.

And yes, part of our job is to look at artwork and tell the customer if its not suitable to be printed and is going to give a bad result. Supplying bad artwork may be their fault, but it doesn't mean we can't advise them on what needs doing to make it look as good as possible.

 

[Bobby H]

One area where I'm going to have a difficult time hiding my hatred: these ****king "sign brokers." A bunch of these guys are doing nothing short of running a get-rich-quick scheme out of a second bedroom in their house. They claim to be a sign company, but don't have an actual fabrication shop, trucks for service and installation, etc. They try to design things, but don't know what the hell they're doing at all. They job everything out to real sign companies like mine, but want us to do the work for next to nothing. I'm sorry, but **** those guys. They're unnecessary middle men.

All this Etsy, Canva, Figma stuff is just another level of irritation to throw into the mix. There are only so many hours in the day. No one wants to spend all their time trying to fix some amateur's butt-ugly, unprofessional artwork. More and more that's where the whole sign industry seems to be going. As I've warned many times before, the ugliness of the fake artwork is going to give way to severe anti-signs legislation. Blue states, red states: it makes zero difference. Anti-signs backlash can and does happen anywhere.

I'm very good at what I do for a living. But, seriously, I'm looking at some fallback plans for a career change if some of the scenarios I fear become reality.

 

[pro-UP]

These type of clients can be difficult, but not impossible to work with. We work with a lot of companies on large, high-end projects and this seems to be the way it is dealing with larger projects. We always require a deposit before doing any of the work. This way if they walk away or become too difficult to work with you will not be completely out of pocket (making it clear this is non-refundable). Second, you need to walk away from worrying about their schedule. Give them the timelines and expectations. If they fail to provide you the information or materials you need, inform them of the revised schedule when they do finally provide the needed items. It is good practice to touch base occasionally so they are aware that you are waiting and to let them know of the changing deadlines. If they push back (and if this fits in your schedule) let them know you can still hit their deadline, but now there is a rushed fee attached. Things tend to not be as big of a rush when a rush fee is applied. When you do finish the project, offer them a slight discount to pay faster or make them pay prior to delivery if you don't trust them to pay on time.

These types of projects can be frustrating, so make sure to charge for the additional administrative time spent dealing with them. The white glove fee. If you do a good job, come close to hitting their timelines, are responsive to their queries... they will remember and order again. They will see that you are reliable and provide excellent products and services. Make it worth your while because letting them stress you out so much is not worth it.

 

[ColorCrest]

Thanks for listening!

No worries.

IMO, it seems the challenge happens to be all on you, but that’s a good thing because it means you have all the control to fix it.

Only two areas of concern for now…

1) You may wrangle customers by using a tried and true scheduling concept. Simply use a customer management policy similar to FedEx which everybody already accepts and understands. “Services will cost more the later items are submitted.” Be sure to broadcast the policy to customers.

In my neck of the woods, there is a definite foundation of how and when such a concept became a common principle. Four decades ago, especially customers of ad agencies complained of arbitrary “rush” fees and, in turn, agencies complained to their vendors of the same. Almost overnight, agency software suddenly included time parameters to calculate pricing of products and services. Fortunately, it was during the new era of small business being able to apply desktop computers to help with the day-to-day. Agency vendors we able to have applied to their software the same answer, whether using spreadsheets or database apps. By the way, there has been no such term as “rush” used for a very long time. Services are scheduled by “days” which software can calculate. So it goes, so long as the notion is not lost on generations.

Your shop software is capable of such a time-pricing method.

2) The grey area (LOL)…

You can use the very lowest common denominator of a press-check by using practically the least expensive color inkjet printer from the likes of Walmart. $40 on sale, seriously. It’s dye ink based, not pigment, and thus will not clog. Get quality office document bond paper, some photo glossy, and some photo semi-gloss. Choose between the paper types when the “first-look” requires whatever end product finish is closest. Most of those printers will print somewhat cool greys as factory calibrated (if you want to call it that). It’s very possible that customers such as you’re describing are looking at similar results on their end.

So, how does your sign printer compare to any alternative first-look you might have available?