CutContour, whats so difficult?

[CanuckSigns]

What is it about setting up a proper CutContour line that some clients find so difficult? I've sent youtube videos showing exact step by step instructions, I still get files back with 6 pt cmyk lines. These are "graphic designers" so it really shouldn't be difficult for them to do.

Normally I would just fix it myself, but sometimes the files can't be opened in illustrator or Corel without messing up some strange gradient, or the fonts aren't outlined etc.

Is there some simple way of converting this that I don't know of? We are printing with onyx 12.2

Rant Over

 

[balstestrat]

If it's not a spot colour named something there's no easy way.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

What is it about setting up a proper CutContour line that some clients find so difficult? I've sent youtube videos showing exact step by step instructions, I still get files back with 6 pt cmyk lines. These are "graphic designers" so it really shouldn't be difficult for them to do.

Normally I would just fix it myself, but sometimes the files can't be opened in illustrator or Corel without messing up some strange gradient, or the fonts aren't outlined etc.

Is there some simple way of converting this that I don't know of? We are printing with onyx 12.2

Rant Over

They could be following your instructions but saving the files wrong. There are settings in illustrator and coreldraw that could be converting to cmyk

 

[ikarasu]

In illustrator open a new document. Drop and drag your file into it, that way it'll be a "link" and it won't touch the text or gradient.

Then goto flatten transparency, and make sure outline text is checked. That way it'll flatten the text and fix missing font issues... I believe it also flattens the gradient but I'm not 100% on that.

I too have the same issue with idiots who claim they added their own cutcontour line... But it's just an RGB stroke... That's in like 50 seperate lines. The above usually fixes it with the least changes in their files

 

[Saturn]

The only thing I do are contour cut stickers, and I don't even bother trying to get people to come up with a proper cut line. I've had maybe 1 out of 1000 files that had a truly usable cut path. The rest all need some sort of tweaking right out of the gate, or are just so "bad" to begin with I can't stomach cutting them the way they're provided anyway (remember I'm not dealing with sign or architectural clients, so doing it to spec isn't an issue.)

For anything other than an 1/8th inch border around a geometric shape it IS a slightly subjective process, so it can be nice when people say, "Here's what I'm thinking, but go ahead and make it how you want." Typically the paths I create have zero corners and are simplified so that the cutter will cut all the way around the shape without ever lifting off the material—VERY fast cutting this way.

Unless I know people are sending PDF's without a lot of font/transparency/spot color issues I usually just flatten them to RGB Tiffs anyway. To make cut lines I usually make a solid black silhouette of the artwork in Photoshop that I then trace in Illustrator. From there you can offset the path, or make a heavy stroke (rounded corners!) and expand that, etc. for your ContourCut line.

I too have gone through the steps one by one, in person, with several "designers", and only a handful pick up the whole process as I do it, so I've just given up. Less stress and way faster just doing the whole thing myself, since there's very little back and forth trying to get "correct" files.

 

[balstestrat]

The only thing I do are contour cut stickers, and I don't even bother trying to get people to come up with a proper cut line. I've had maybe 1 out of 1000 files that had a truly usable cut path. The rest all need some sort of tweaking right out of the gate, or are just so "bad" to begin with I can't stomach cutting them the way they're provided anyway (remember I'm not dealing with sign or architectural clients, so doing it to spec isn't an issue.)

For anything other than an 1/8th inch border around a geometric shape it IS a slightly subjective process, so it can be nice when people say, "Here's what I'm thinking, but go ahead and make it how you want." Typically the paths I create have zero corners and are simplified so that the cutter will cut all the way around the shape without ever lifting off the material—VERY fast cutting this way.

Unless I know people are sending PDF's without a lot of font/transparency/spot color issues I usually just flatten them to RGB Tiffs anyway. To make cut lines I usually make a solid black silhouette of the artwork in Photoshop that I then trace in Illustrator. From there you can offset the path, or make a heavy stroke (rounded corners!) and expand that, etc. for your ContourCut line.

I too have gone through the steps one by one, in person, with several "designers", and only a handful pick up the whole process as I do it, so I've just given up. Less stress and way faster just doing the whole thing myself, since there's very little back and forth trying to get "correct" files.

If you do it that much have you ever thought about automation?

 

[Saturn]

If you do it that much have you ever thought about automation?

Do you have some ideas on how to achieve it? I haven't seen any scripts or automated processes that 100% nail things without the need for a little human intervention. I'd be all ears though!

I will be the first to admit I probably am just too picky on how the final result turns out... ;p

 

[balstestrat]

Do you have some ideas on how to achieve it? I haven't seen any scripts or automated processes that 100% nail things without the need for a little human intervention. I'd be all ears though!

I will be the first to admit I probably am just too picky on how the final result turns out... ;p

Well it also depends on how exactly you want it done but for example Onyx Trufit. You can get a trial for it and test it out.
Caldera Prime Center, Enfocus...

 

[Saturn]

Well it also depends on how exactly you want it done but for example Onyx Trufit. You can get a trial for it and test it out.
Caldera Prime Center, Enfocus...

I thought you might be talking about automating the CutContour path creation. The impositioning (at least at my scale) isn't much of a time sink yet. Unless I'm missing a feature in one of those.

For more rigid substrates or different offerings I could see that being pretty cool though—especially with spendy material.

When I describe the workflow my process always sounds laborious, but since that's really all there is to it, no other prepress steps, it's not so bad per job. I do offer a discount on circles and rectangles however, because they're quicker/simpler at all stages from beginning to end... ;p

 

[Bobby H]

What is it about setting up a proper CutContour line that some clients find so difficult?

So many people out there trying to do graphic design work can't even grasp the difference between pixels and vectors. It's always fun to get a company logo from a "designer" in the form of a JPEG file and an accompanying Illustrator AI or PDF file containing the same dopey JPEG.

It's not difficult setting up CutContour lines. The steps can vary slightly from one application to the next; the fundamentals are similar. But the user's ability to successfully set up CutContour lines kind of depends on that user understanding the very concept of a spot color. Most of these people don't understand the difference between RGB and CMYK color models, much less how spot colors relate to print.

It's not 100% required for someone to get a college degree in graphic design or even take a few courses at a college or vo-tech to learn this stuff. This is basic information available for free on the Internet from multiple sources, including software documentation. Are they reading any of it? Nope.

I guess that's one of the things that helps us "professionals" keep our jobs. On the other hand I'd rather be spending the time I have to burn fixing issues in client provided artwork on creating my own stuff.

 

[balstestrat]

I thought you might be talking about automating the CutContour path creation. The impositioning (at least at my scale) isn't much of a time sink yet. Unless I'm missing a feature in one of those.

For more rigid substrates or different offerings I could see that being pretty cool though—especially with spendy material.

When I describe the workflow my process always sounds laborious, but since that's really all there is to it, no other prepress steps, it's not so bad per job. I do offer a discount on circles and rectangles however, because they're quicker/simpler at all stages from beginning to end... ;p

Yeah I did mean automating cutcontour.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So many people out there trying to do graphic design work can't even grasp the difference between pixels and vectors. It's always fun to get a company logo from a "designer" in the form of a JPEG file and an accompanying Illustrator AI or PDF file containing the same dopey JPEG.

It's not difficult setting up CutContour lines. The steps can vary slightly from one application to the next; the fundamentals are similar. But the user's ability to successfully set up CutContour lines kind of depends on that user understanding the very concept of a spot color. Most of these people don't understand the difference between RGB and CMYK color models, much less how spot colors relate to print.

It's not 100% required for someone to get a college degree in graphic design or even take a few courses at a college or vo-tech to learn this stuff. This is basic information available for free on the Internet from multiple sources, including software documentation. Are they reading any of it? Nope.

I guess that's one of the things that helps us "professionals" keep our jobs. On the other hand I'd rather be spending the time I have to burn fixing issues in client provided artwork on creating my own stuff.

I learned from watching YouTube. That's what separates me from those hacks.
It only takes a minute to make a cut line, I'd rather do it myself so it's clean and doesn't have a bunch of sharp corners or a million nodes

 

[JamesLam]

Is it worth having a few of your key clients over for an in-house session or is that too complicated?

 

[Bobby H]

I learned from watching YouTube. That's what separates me from those hacks.

Yeah, the "hacks" can't even bother looking up a video on YouTube. Even that is too difficult for them. The situation is exasperating.

The laziness really annoys "old timers" like me, who first learned graphic design the analog way back in the 1980's and experienced the digital transition from its start. Back then it was more necessary to take classes or even get a degree since the learning resources weren't so easily accessible as they are now. On top of that, people wanting to do their own DIY graphics tasks have more choices of easily affordable or free software than ever before.

It took most of my 20's to pay off my student loans. So from my point of view I really don't have any sympathy for "self taught" wannabe designers who can't bother looking up tutorial videos for free.

I don't know, maybe for some of those people they really do need something like a classroom structure with a list of assignments and deadlines to press their noses to the grindstone in order to learn something. They're not self-motivated enough to do it on their own.

Is it worth having a few of your key clients over for an in-house session or is that too complicated?

Something like a single in-house group session is pointless. They won't remember the lesson. It takes repeated real-world use of those steps in the software for the user to retain the information. And that's predicated on them already having a proper, foundational understanding of what the software does.

So many people out there only want to remember a list of steps to get a specific task completed. They'll even whip out a note pad and start writing down the steps, which is a pointless rabbit hole to enter. They don't want to understand the "why" behind those steps. In the case of making CutContour lines, they don't want to take time to learn the concept of a spot color or how that relates to a process color.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yeah, the "hacks" can't even bother looking up a video on YouTube. Even that is too difficult for them. The situation is exasperating.

The laziness really annoys "old timers" like me, who first learned graphic design the analog way back in the 1980's and experienced the digital transition from its start. Back then it was more necessary to take classes or even get a degree since the learning resources weren't so easily accessible as they are now. On top of that, people wanting to do their own DIY graphics tasks have more choices of easily affordable or free software than ever before.

It took most of my 20's to pay off my student loans. So from my point of view I really don't have any sympathy for "self taught" wannabe designers who can't bother looking up tutorial videos for free.

I don't know, maybe for some of those people they really do need something like a classroom structure with a list of assignments and deadlines to press their noses to the grindstone in order to learn something. They're not self-motivated enough to do it on their own.



Something like a single in-house group session is pointless. They won't remember the lesson. It takes repeated real-world use of those steps in the software for the user to retain the information. And that's predicated on them already having a proper, foundational understanding of how the software works.

So many people out there only want to remember a list of steps to get a specific task completed. They'll even whip out a note pad and start writing down the steps, which is a pointless rabbit hole to enter. They don't want to understand the "why" behind those steps. In the case of making CutContour lines, they don't want to take time to learn the concept of a spot color or how that relates to a process color.

Yeah it's great. Last week I learned how to be a roofer and this weekend an electrician. Nothing has burned down yet so I say that I'm about due for an attaboy at least. It is not all that different today than 30-40 years ago. When computers first started becoming mainstream, I learned how to be a pilot by playing flight simulator. I have never been able to actually test it in real life. I am sure it would be probably be even easier because you just have a stick rather than having to remember all of those different keys to push for the different functions.
Really though, the old trade magazines had tutorials on lots of different things. I'd follow the tutorials in the airbrush magazines as I learned and kept every single one as a reference. You are right though, the biggest problem is people being intellectually lazy. The answer to damn near everything is out there for anyone that is willing to learn, without needing handholding or asking questions.

 

[Boudica]

Yeah it's great. Last week I learned how to be a roofer and this weekend an electrician. Nothing has burned down yet so I say that I'm about due for an attaboy at least. It is not all that different today than 30-40 years ago. When computers first started becoming mainstream, I learned how to be a pilot by playing flight simulator. I have never been able to actually test it in real life. I am sure it would be probably be even easier because you just have a stick rather than having to remember all of those different keys to push for the different functions.
Really though, the old trade magazines had tutorials on lots of different things. I'd follow the tutorials in the airbrush magazines as I learned and kept every single one as a reference. You are right though, the biggest problem is people being intellectually lazy. The answer to damn near everything is out there for anyone that is willing to learn, without needing handholding or asking questions.

Attaboy!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Attaboy!

Look at that sloppy thing, how am I supposed to cut that out?

 

[Boudica]

Look at that sloppy thing, how am I supposed to cut that out?

Trace it

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Trace it

I don't know how. Is there some sort of program that can do it for me?

 

[ikarasu]

Onyx true fit kind of sucked. I might have to try it again but it was a pain in the ass.

I use vinyl cut master and it will automatically put a 1/8 inch border , or a close cut around everything with the click of a button. Then I just open it in illustrator... Copy the cut line, add a stroke / bleed if needed and be finewith it. Takes a minute or two... It'd be nice to automate it, but I haven't found software good enough. Enfocus lookes nice though, I'll have to test it!