Cutter options for S70670?

[TheMechanic]

Hey guys, I'm getting started with sign printing and am gravitating to the Epson S70670 due to the number of inks I can use (I'm a sucker for wide gamut). Unlike the Roland SOLJET which has a built in XY cutter, the Epson appears to not have the option.

What are you guys doing to cut printouts? Should I just opt for the Roland which includes the cutter?

 

[BigfishDM]

Hey guys, I'm getting started with sign printing and am gravitating to the Epson S70670 due to the number of inks I can use (I'm a sucker for wide gamut). Unlike the Roland SOLJET which has a built in XY cutter, the Epson appears to not have the option.

What are you guys doing to cut printouts? Should I just opt for the Roland which includes the cutter?

Is there a certain application your trying to do where you need the extra colors? Have you been educated on HP Latex at all? If your looking for a stand alone cutter I would check out the Graphtec and Summa models.

 

[Robert Gruner]

Mechanic,

The fish is spot on. Check out HP Latex. Epson S70670?? Used printer? Epson S80600, 11 color printer sells for $23K...considerably more than HP Latex 560, 6 colors. You should take a close look at them.

The Fish recommends either Graphtec or Summa for a stand alone vinyl cutter. I concur.
I would be curious to know which cutter Bigfish thinks is best? and why?

 

[BigfishDM]

Mechanic,

The fish is spot on. Check out HP Latex. Epson S70670?? Used printer? Epson S80600, 11 color printer sells for $23K...considerably more than HP Latex 560, 6 colors. You should take a close look at them.

The Fish recommends either Graphtec or Summa for a stand alone vinyl cutter. I concur.
I would be curious to know which cutter Bigfish thinks is best? and why?

Robert,
Thanks for the kind words sir. I would recommend the Graphtec cutter mainly because I am more familiar with that unit over the other major brands. Here is an interesting breakdown of what the market says about the cutters out there.

Graphtec owns about 41% of the cutter market.
27% of users have some other misc cutter that is not a major brand.
The rest of the market is shared pretty evenly between Procut, Roland, Summa, US Cutter, and Mutoh. (They each share about 7% of the market)

The interesting part is that the ratings given out by the consumer show that the Roland cutter is the highest rated, followed by Summa and Graphtec.
The most popular unit is the Graphtec but the highest rated cutter would go to Roland.

The main ones I see everyday are Graphtec and Summa and honestly I have seen issues with both of them but for the most part you wont go wrong with either one.

 

[Robert Gruner]

Bigfish,

I'm mostly in your camp, except for a few thoughts.

In the beginning, Gerber 15" and 30" sprocketed cutters ruled the world! They were Tangential knife (motorized knife) cutters, well built, very reliable, and terribly expensive. This was PRE digital printer time. Sign makers cut 100's of different colored vinyl and made banners. Summa (Summagraphic) cutters jumped into this market in late 1990's with a reliable 30" and later 48" Tangential knife cutter. Like Gerber, it was well engineered, well built, very reliable and also pretty expensive. As the sign industry continued to grow, so too did the list of vinyl cutter manufacturers including Roland, Graphtec, Mimaki, Mutoh, Ioline, and eventually companies like GCC and Vicsign. ALL of these cutters employed Drag Knife (Trailing Knife) technology. In the early years drag knife technology was inferior to tangential knife technology; but, in time became quite competitive with Summa Tangential Knife technology to the point where Summa was forced to introduce their own Drag Knife cutters. The Japanese built cutters (Graphtec, Roland, Mimaki and Mutoh) evolved into well built, highly reliable and less expensive cutters. The cutter market flip flopped and Graphtec became the defacto choice for most American sign makers.

I suspect your source is correct in noting that Graphtec controls 40+% of today's wide format cutter market. On the other hand, I tend to believe Summa is well below but still controls second place in American sales. I believe it is actually a superior product but it is still priced way too high to effectively compete with Graphtec and others for what is mostly large format die-cutting.

For cutting heavier substrates like Prismatic Road Sign material or for cutting very small graphics, I still believe the Summa Tangential Knife cutter is the best.

 

[jfiscus]

Really, any cutter will work as long as your RIP supports it.
We have Mimaki and Summa cutters here with out Epsons. I have also used Roland, Gerber and Graphtec plotters and all of them have worked great.
We like our Epsons here and the options that the S70 series provide.

 

[TheMechanic]

Gents, thanks for your replies - much appreciated. I do plan to scoop a used S70670 or a Roland soljet III 64"

I am leaning towards additional colors as I also want to reproduce Fine Art using solvent ink. 8 inks (exlucing white/metallic) will give me enough gamut to faithfully reproduce canvas as well as photographic quality banners with the durability of solvent. My business comes from the photo space; I am trying to expand to signage/vynil printing.

I've viewed the HP Latex and have a decent chunk of experience with the Designjet line. It appears the Latex printers can be had pretty cheaply comparatively speaking, with 775ml tanks to boot. My only holdup is the lack of a built in XY cutter and complaints about color drift due to thermal heads.

What do you guys make of the Roland 64" soljets? The only thing that pulls me in the direction is the prestige and cutter. What pulls me to the Epson is brand familiarity, wide gamut + white/metallic. I am fairly confident I can service the printer myself as well despite needing a few EXE's.

So i guess the question is, if you guys were jumping into the business, in the market for a used unit (time table 1 quarter), what would you go with?

 

[ProColorGraphics]

I am running a S70 (with white and silver) and a S80 with silver. The gamut on these are amazing!! I also do some fine art prints with mine and they turn out great! I am running a Summa Tangential cutter. You couldn't give me a drag knife cutter again, or a Graphtec for that matter. I had a bad experience with a couple Graphtec machines. I have had AMAZING results with my Summa. There is definitely a reason they cost more.

 

[jfiscus]

Gents, thanks for your replies - much appreciated. I do plan to scoop a used S70670 or a Roland soljet III 64"

I am leaning towards additional colors as I also want to reproduce Fine Art using solvent ink. 8 inks (exlucing white/metallic) will give me enough gamut to faithfully reproduce canvas as well as photographic quality banners with the durability of solvent. My business comes from the photo space; I am trying to expand to signage/vynil printing.

I've viewed the HP Latex and have a decent chunk of experience with the Designjet line. It appears the Latex printers can be had pretty cheaply comparatively speaking, with 775ml tanks to boot. My only holdup is the lack of a built in XY cutter and complaints about color drift due to thermal heads.

What do you guys make of the Roland 64" soljets? The only thing that pulls me in the direction is the prestige and cutter. What pulls me to the Epson is brand familiarity, wide gamut + white/metallic. I am fairly confident I can service the printer myself as well despite needing a few EXE's.

So i guess the question is, if you guys were jumping into the business, in the market for a used unit (time table 1 quarter), what would you go with?

If you're coming from a fine art/photo background the built-in cutter is not what you want. Those are more for the cheapo shops that can only afford one machine to get into the industry, but don't fully understand the potential they can tap into. More the short-run, quick-turnaround jobs that you will soon realize you really don't want. If you are looking to produce quality prints then you're going to HAVE to laminate them for longevity, and using the print then immediately cut feature of the Roland you're skipping that step.

If you're planning on large format printing and want quality prints, then go with the Epson. If you're really picky about color in your prints, then stay away from the HP Latex; it prints different colors all day long if your environment isn't "perfect" and as the (easily replaceable) heads degrade the print quality gradually goes down.

 

[TheMechanic]

I forgot to thank you for replying. Tx jfiscus!