Cutting pre-printed material without rego marks

[wransiik]

Hey there,

I've got some pre-printed cardboard from before I've had my cutting plotter, obviously there's no rego marks on them now.

Is there any solution to getting those cut out properly? It is a pretty basic shape, basically it's a product packaging box, something like:

They cut okay with a cutting mat, however I'm not quite sure how to get the cut at the correct spot since it's pre-printed?
So far I've tried to load just the outlines into Flexi and then let it cut, but as you can imagine the cut is all over the place and not on the lines.

Any ideas?

//Edit: Forgot to mention I am using Flexi 10, but also have AI available.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

It will take a little work. Take ruler and find the point where the bottom line and far right line meet at the bottom right of the design. Make that the 0,0 on your plotter. then set up your cut so that the 0,0 starts from the same point on your design on the computer. This should be fairly accurate.


Attached is your example. Set 0,0 the same place on computer and on plotter.

 

[GAC05]

Seems like you could add the registration marks to your layout in flexi.
Print that layout & use it to make a guide to pen in the marks on the pre-printed cartons.
Your guide could just be a cut rectangle with 4 registration marks to align it on the pre-printed material.

Should work, I've run into a few jobs that failed to print the top reg marks (too close to the max print margin) drew them in the right spots and cut away.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[wransiik]

It will take a little work. Take ruler and find the point where the bottom line and far right line meet at the bottom right of the design. Make that the 0,0 on your plotter. then set up your cut so that the 0,0 starts from the same point on your design on the computer. This should be fairly accurate.


Attached is your example. Set 0,0 the same place on computer and on plotter.

That sounds great, thanks.

Would you mind to answer a few questions, I'm new to plotting and just got my first plotter yesterday so I'm not really up to speed with it yet.

Finding the 0,0 on the paper seems easy enough, how do I find the 0,0 in Flexi ? Is it the X,Y at the DesignCentral window?

After that's sorted, the plotter has a few different X,Y options, Coord X Y, Offset X Y, Scale X Y, do I choose Coord or Offset here? And then I just set the bottom right corner where the lines meet as 0,0 and cut away?

These are probably the most basic of things / questions, as a newcomer I greatly appreciate your patience and help.
Thank you.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

That sounds great, thanks.

Would you mind to answer a few questions, I'm new to plotting and just got my first plotter yesterday so I'm not really up to speed with it yet.

Finding the 0,0 on the paper seems easy enough, how do I find the 0,0 in Flexi ? Is it the X,Y at the DesignCentral window? NO
Click cut file then in the production manager your 0,0 will be the very bottom right corner. set your design so that it is not offset at all, it is butted directly to the right side and bottom. Put the pen on your plotter directly on that same bottom corner and hit origin. make sure everything is squared to the plotter the same as the design or it will be off.

After that's sorted, the plotter has a few different X,Y options, Coord X Y, Offset X Y, Scale X Y, do I choose Coord or Offset here? 0 for all except scale And then I just set the bottom right corner where the lines meet as 0,0 and cut away? Make sure pen is on the imaginary bottom right corner and make sure you hit origin. If your cut extends past the outside pinch wheels then you have to do some trickery to get the plotter to think the size of media is larger then the outside pinch rollers.

These are probably the most basic of things / questions, as a newcomer I greatly appreciate your patience and help.
Thank you.

and a little extra

 

[wransiik]

and a little extra

Thanks Big Easy,

I am still having some issues getting it exactly square, but I'm getting there.

I have some other problem not related to this topic, but I don't want to flood the boards with my newbie problems. I know my plotter is chinese made and probably not the best quality (Teneth / Kuco) do you happen to have any experience with them? I'm having trouble with Contour cutting in Flexi, basically I have set the offset (red dot to blade) on my plotter but whenever I contour cut in flexi, the plotter does not apply any of my settings, not offset, not force, not speed, it looks like Flexi completely overrides them.

I have noticed though that if I press the X button on my plotter it starts cutting with the settings that are set on the plotter?! Obviously the plotter already started moving by that time so the cut is all over the place.

This however happens only when I contour cut, if I cut normally it uses the plotter settings, verifiable by changing the speed mid-cut it properly speeds up, if I do that when contour cutting it does nothing.

Any ideas?

Thanks


On an additional note:

Seems like you could add the registration marks to your layout in flexi.
Print that layout & use it to make a guide to pen in the marks on the pre-printed cartons.
Your guide could just be a cut rectangle with 4 registration marks to align it on the pre-printed material.

Should work, I've run into a few jobs that failed to print the top reg marks (too close to the max print margin) drew them in the right spots and cut away.

wayne k
guam usa

For anyone running into the same problem who doesn't have much experience like me, this is also probably the easier solution, I just tested that as well and it works great.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Thanks Big Easy,

I am still having some issues getting it exactly square, but I'm getting there. SET A RULER ALONG WHERE THE BOTTOME CUT LINE SHOULD BE AND ALIGHT THAT WITH THE CUTTING STRIP.

I have some other problem not related to this topic, but I don't want to flood the boards with my newbie problems. I know my plotter is chinese made and probably not the best quality (Teneth / Kuco) do you happen to have any experience with them? I'm having trouble with Contour cutting in Flexi, basically I have set the offset (red dot to blade) on my plotter but whenever I contour cut in flexi, the plotter does not apply any of my settings, not offset, not force, not speed, it looks like Flexi completely overrides them.

I have noticed though that if I press the X button on my plotter it starts cutting with the settings that are set on the plotter?! Obviously the plotter already started moving by that time so the cut is all over the place.

This however happens only when I contour cut, if I cut normally it uses the plotter settings, verifiable by changing the speed mid-cut it properly speeds up, if I do that when contour cutting it does nothing.

Any ideas?

Thanks


On an additional note:



For anyone running into the same problem who doesn't have much experience like me, this is also probably the easier solution, I just tested that as well and it works great.

Send cut to prod manager. When you open to set up the position of the cut. There is a little pen/knife tool tab at the top. Click that and then double click the " black cut fast" yours might be different color. Then you can either choose to have no settings and it will follow the plotter settings. Or you can change the speed, force, etc there and it will change on your plotter automatically.

 

[wransiik]

Send cut to prod manager. When you open to set up the position of the cut. There is a little pen/knife tool tab at the top. Click that and then double click the " black cut fast" yours might be different color. Then you can either choose to have no settings and it will follow the plotter settings. Or you can change the speed, force, etc there and it will change on your plotter automatically.

Those are the options I get when I'm in the options and advanced options (pen/knife tool) tabs (for contour cut)

And if I click on the Color / All colors at driver options, then this pops up:

If I do the same for normal cut, it also shows "Black" instead of All colors and I get loads more options, but nowhere where I can set force or speed, just offset - same with contour cut, or am I in the wrong menu here?

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Those are the options I get when I'm in the options and advanced options (pen/knife tool) tabs (for contour cut)

See above where it says contour cut and the grey box. Double click that it will open another box with all the force, speed, etc.

If I do the same for normal cut, it also shows "Black" instead of All colors and I get loads more options, but nowhere where I can set force or speed, just offset - same with contour cut, or am I in the wrong menu here?

ya

 

[wransiik]

ya

Ok, so then something's wrong with my Flexi or my plotter doesn't support setting force and speed through Flexi? Those options just don't exist in the pop-up when I double click on the grey box, I can just set offset.

It's just confusing even if I set it to "None", it still doesn't work with the plotter settings, it's not using the plotters offset, speed or force at all.

Weird!

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Ok, so then something's wrong with my Flexi or my plotter doesn't support setting force and speed through Flexi? Those options just don't exist in the pop-up when I double click on the grey box, I can just set offset.

It's just confusing even if I set it to "None", it still doesn't work with the plotter settings, it's not using the plotters offset, speed or force at all.

Weird!

It must be telling it somehow to change the speed and force. Where did the drivers for the plotter come from?

 

[wransiik]

It must be telling it somehow to change the speed and force. Where did the drivers for the plotter come from?

The drivers came from the manufacturers website, FTDI_USB_DRIVER if I recall correctly. They were the only ones they use for all their plotters I think.

There's something else on the site which is labeled "Flexi Driver" it consists of a .csm and .enc file, do I have to do something with these?

//Edit: Turns out those 2 files go into the OutputDrivers folder within the Flexi installation folder, but they were already in there. Guess I couldn't have chosen my specific plotter in the Production Manager if they weren't anyways.

 

[Jburns]

I didnt like the flexi cutter setting options for my cutter (FC7000). So i changed my menu settings on the cutter itself--not to take commands from software. Check to see if you have such an option.
It cuts from flexi-- but uses the cutter settings.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I didnt like the flexi cutter setting options for my cutter (FC7000). So i changed my menu settings on the cutter itself--not to take commands from software. Check to see if you have such an option.
It cuts from flexi-- but uses the cutter settings.

This is what we are trying to help him find. But since the driver is not from flexi and the plotter is cheaper brand. The controls in flexi production manager are not the same as your FC7000. I would talk to flexi first and see what options they have for you. If you have no flexi support the best option is to run as normal. Pause on plotter before first cut and change the condition on the plotter after you have sent the cut already.