first post ever

[bronzeback]

First post ever, two person sign shop using a shear press, hole punch, and radius cutter to make street name signs and road signs for Pa. and Md. Wondering what a better solution would be. Is there a CNC that would fit into this situation. We hardly ever make odd shapes, so rectangles, shields, yields and circles are about all we need to cut, and punch holes in. thanks in advance, Rob.

 

[2B]

Depends upon the QTY you make, a good CNC will have a hefty $
Yes, a CNC will allow you to produce shapes the sheer press cannot.
or
contact your material supplier and see what they would charge to have these shapes made, also look for a local metal fabricator, they may have a CNC and will price out the cutting if you bring in the material

 

[equippaint]

I think a CNC would be too slow and the way you're doing it is best until you step up to a custom stamping setup and un-coiler. You could also have someone build you some custom dies and make your own for a smaller scale that would at least round and punch at the same time. Grimco has a video somewhere of their facility making blanks.
What are you using now for your punch and radius?

 

[bronzeback]

I think a CNC would be too slow and the way you're doing it is best until you step up to a custom stamping setup and un-coiler. You could also have someone build you some custom dies and make your own for a smaller scale that would at least round and punch at the same time. Grimco has a video somewhere of their facility making blanks.
What are you using now for your punch and radius?

I think a CNC would be too slow and the way you're doing it is best until you step up to a custom stamping setup and un-coiler. You could also have someone build you some custom dies and make your own for a smaller scale that would at least round and punch at the same time. Grimco has a video somewhere of their facility making blanks.
What are you using now for your punch and radius?

Thanks for the response, with just two people in here I feel this forum might really help with ideas. Our Shear and hole punch are very old maybe in the 30's -40's newer radius cutter, but it is still pretty time consuming to cut the blanks( out of 4x8 sheets ) de bur them punch the holes and radius the corners on 4 thousand signs a year. Are there cnc machines that just do the x-y cutting we don't need 3D, just lots of squares and rectangles mostly?

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Fiber laser?

 

[bronzeback]

Depends upon the QTY you make, a good CNC will have a hefty $
Yes, a CNC will allow you to produce shapes the sheer press cannot.
or
contact your material supplier and see what they would charge to have these shapes made, also look for a local metal fabricator, they may have a CNC and will price out the cutting if you bring in the material

Thanks, we do use a local cutter but only for odd shapes, we do the usual 4k signs a year ourselves and I wonder how much faster with less waste and more accurate cuts a less expensive cnc might be.

 

[rossmosh]

Are you cutting out of steel or aluminum? Aluminum makes a typical CNC router possible. Steel is not something you see typically cut on a CNC router. Even thin stuff.

 

[bronzeback]

Fiber laser?

never heard of that, will look it up and pointers where I should look?

 

[bronzeback]

Are you cutting out of steel or aluminum? Aluminum makes a typical CNC router possible. Steel is not something you see typically cut on a CNC router. Even thin stuff.

It's all either .080 aluminum or more rarely.125

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

never heard of that, will look it up and pointers where I should look?

I know BOSS and Epilog makes fiber lasers. Gravotech, Trotec, and Universal all makes CO2 lasers, possibly fiber lasers. They're fairly affordable nowadays, depending on what size you need.

You'll need a fiber, CO2 won't cut metals.

 

[bronzeback]

I'm just the manager here, not the owner.So if we were to upgrade it would mostly likely be with a budget of 10-15K

 

[rossmosh]

It's all either .080 aluminum or more rarely.125

A CNC router will do what you want. I'd think a realistic budget would be around $30k. For that you'll get a 4x8 machine with a vac table, 5HP spindle, steel construction, and an air mister.

Ball park, you'll be able to cut around 60-70ipm in a single pass. Maybe even a bit faster. So on a 8" x 24" sign, it will take about 2 minutes to cut.

Where you're going to want to invest your money is on hold down. Thin material is by far the worst material to cut on a CNC router. It wants to lift and shift and cause all sorts of problems. You limit this problem by having a really good vacuum table and using the right bits.

One last thing to mention is clean up/sheet changes. You're going to have little shards of aluminum all over the place and the dust collection will do a good but not great job. You can't just pull a sheet off and just slide another one on. That's a fantasy. You have to figure about 5-10 minutes for a sheet change. It's something often over looked.

I'm just the manager here, not the owner.So if we were to upgrade it would mostly likely be with a budget of 10-15K

For that budget you're buying a used machine or building a DIY machine. Neither will likely be designed for what you're doing. You need something a bit heavier and more industrial if you're cutting aluminum all day.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I'm just the manager here, not the owner.So if we were to upgrade it would mostly likely be with a budget of 10-15K

Ah. Well, scrap that fiber laser idea then. Have y'all looked into plasma cutters at all? I know next to nothing about them, just floating the idea.

 

[bronzeback]

A CNC router will do what you want. I'd think a realistic budget would be around $30k. For that you'll get a 4x8 machine with a vac table, 5HP spindle, steel construction, and an air mister.

Ball park, you'll be able to cut around 60-70ipm in a single pass. Maybe even a bit faster. So on a 8" x 24" sign, it will take about 2 minutes to cut.

Where you're going to want to invest your money is on hold down. Thin material is by far the worst material to cut on a CNC router. It wants to lift and shift and cause all sorts of problems. You limit this problem by having a really good vacuum table and using the right bits.

One last thing to mention is clean up/sheet changes. You're going to have little shards of aluminum all over the place and the dust collection will do a good but not great job. You can't just pull a sheet off and just slide another one on. That's a fantasy. You have to figure about 5-10 minutes for a sheet change. It's something often over looked.



For that budget you're buying a used machine or building a DIY machine. Neither will likely be designed for what you're doing. You need something a bit heavier and more industrial if you're cutting aluminum all day.

Well that is is very illuminating, had no idea it would take so long, our shear is much quicker, but less accurate, no stop bar, it's all how well the operator cuts. Luckily, tolerances are not very high, around 3/16 off on all sizes. And as you say there is a lag time between sheets, we can just dust off the table and pull another sheet off the pile. Thank you, maybe a cnc would actually slow production down. And for 30k maybe we would be better off getting a better laminator, for a lot less money. So how do I ask about selling a mimaki eco solvent printer that is probably not worth much and a mimaki plotter that we also want to sell?

 

[JTBoh]

Harbor Sales will cut to shape - one of the best suppliers I've ever worked with. Eastern shore.

 

[bronzeback]

Thanks, we do use them, though it is frustrating dealing with the cut shop.

 

[rossmosh]

Well that is is very illuminating, had no idea it would take so long, our shear is much quicker, but less accurate, no stop bar, it's all how well the operator cuts. Luckily, tolerances are not very high, around 3/16 off on all sizes. And as you say there is a lag time between sheets, we can just dust off the table and pull another sheet off the pile. Thank you, maybe a cnc would actually slow production down. And for 30k maybe we would be better off getting a better laminator, for a lot less money. So how do I ask about selling a mimaki eco solvent printer that is probably not worth much and a mimaki plotter that we also want to sell?

There are pros and cons for every process. Remember while that CNC is cutting away, you're off doing something else. It also is a 1 set process typically. Need a sign with rounded corners and drilled holes? Okay, program the CNC to do the job and "walk away". With smaller shops, getting your equipment working while you're doing something else can be hugely beneficial. What you might find as a decent compromise is buying a used ShopBot type CNC with a spindle. Then sending some work to the CNC and other stuff, push to the shear.

One thing I will say is, if you don't buy into the CNC process, you'll never view it as a useful tool. You'll just say something like "I can do it faster the other way" or something like that. Once you buy in and get used to it, people typically appreciate having the option.

 

[bronzeback]

More great advice! Thanks. yes it is very nice to have a printer printing and a plotter plotting while other things can be done. As it is now when metal is being cut with the shear the operator is right there the whole time. I wonder if some shops still use a 4x8 shear and they have a smaller "shop bot" that they can feed metal into that is not full size 4x8 sheets?