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Need Help First time digital printer purchase
- Thread starter Clowk
- Start date
This is a bold question to ask here and very vague. This is like saying I want to buy a car which one?
First what is your experience?
What are looking at doing, decals, vehicle wraps, wall murals, signs, etc...
What type of media will you be printing most on?
Have you ever used a larger format digital printer before?
What about rip program?
Do you have a 64" laminator or plotter?
How often do you print? How much do you print?
How technically skilled are you?
Are you doing your own artwork? What design software do you use?
Where is the printer going to be located at?
Without knowing any of this I would say you should look latex. HP has some great deals on a lower end HP 115 series, if you wanted to go up you could also look at HP 360 series or if you want to look at a bulk ink system a HP 570.
Latex might be better fit as you don't have to wait for prints to off gas, no fumes, no waste ink, a wider selection of media to choose from as well.
Some things to think about with latex, the 360 and 570 series does require a 220 line for power. The heads on latex are consumable which means that you do have to replace but their cost is nominal compared to solvent or eco-solvent.
If it's not something that you considered before I would take a serious look.
i work with sublimation and embroidery
we prefer wall murals, poster, vehicle wraps and banners.
first time with digital printers, i got a few advise from someone with a roland rf640 and a mimaki cjv150/160 about the current market but i would like to try new things like the new Mimaki UCJV150/160
i dont have anything, i have 30k to buy and work in that area (for some reason i have to take the full desicion of the inversion)
technic skill - pretty good(i can try and work with almost any machine)
we have our international designers, not really a problem in this part.
what do you meant about the printer location?
i do prefer eco-solvent.
about the laminator, i can buy one in the case that is needed, or any other machine to make the work more industrial.
we prefer wall murals, poster, vehicle wraps and banners.
first time with digital printers, i got a few advise from someone with a roland rf640 and a mimaki cjv150/160 about the current market but i would like to try new things like the new Mimaki UCJV150/160
i dont have anything, i have 30k to buy and work in that area (for some reason i have to take the full desicion of the inversion)
technic skill - pretty good(i can try and work with almost any machine)
we have our international designers, not really a problem in this part.
what do you meant about the printer location?
i do prefer eco-solvent.
about the laminator, i can buy one in the case that is needed, or any other machine to make the work more industrial.
The physical location of the machine.
Yes you will need one. Almost anything that is digitally printed will need to be laminated.
Do you have a reason why or just what some guy said that was trying to sell you a eco-solvent printer. We made the jump from solvent to latex and never looked back. Yes each machine has their pro's and con's but the pro's of latex much out weigh any con's compared to solvent or eco-solvent.
the machine is going to be alone in one room
I dont really have any specific reason to go with eco-solvent, i mean, i would go with anything that doesnt have a strong smell(like solvent or latex) and can achieve a good quality for a good price.
btw its better to buy printer and cutter or print/cut?
If you have the cash I would by two separate machines. If you buy a print/cut, you still have to take the roll off to laminate, also you can't cut while your printing and you can't print while you cut. If you have separate machines you can do both at the same time which means less bottle necking in production process.
Also solvent machines have to be vented. Eco-solvent should be in a well vented room. Latex does not have these issues.
I'm probably like most here with a tendency to recommend the technology we chose ourselves. I started seven years ago have had two latex machines - love the low maintenance, no wait for lamination, good print durability un-laminated (decals, wallpaper etc.). We use our obsolete latex 25500 to supplement our main production on the 560 latex and it can sit for many days unused and still print quality prints (mostly banners now). Can't imagine ever changing to solvent for workflow hit alone as we do a lot of lamination for wraps and outdoor signage. Big rub on latex is that color can shift over time (probably due to consumable printheads as they wear) but the onboard color calibration takes care of most of those issues and new heads are relatively inexpensive.
AGCharlotte
New Member
latex shouldn't have a smell, some materials you might run through it may smell when they're heated by the machine (IJ180 is probably the most "smelly" substrate I've run through my 310). What people have said makes sense on the other things. If you get the combo printer/cutter (like the Roland), you can only do one or the other at a time. If whatever you're running primarily will also need cutting, it might save you some time with unloading/loading, but you're also pausing printing to cut. Lamination is also more on the "need" side, but that does depend a bit on what you're producing. If you mostly make interior items (posters, retractable banners, fabric prints, simple decals) then the need for lamination might be less.
Most everyone is going to tell you whatever they purchased is the best. I don't think anyone will tell you what they purchased is crap or they made a mistake in their purchase decision. While it may be the best for them, it may not be the best for you. Go to the shows and do your research. We went through the same thing before we made our purchase and we ended up with the Epson S40600. I guess you could say we are an Epson shop as we have their wide format Dye Sub Printers as well as their DTG printers, so we felt comfortable with the brand along with the service and support we receive on those printers. We also love their inks. However, that didn't prevent us from looking at Mimaki, HP and Roland. The Mimaki was annoyingly loud while printing, HP didn't have a dealer near us and we felt the Epson had more vibrant print quality when run side by side. We found a dealer at an NBM Show that had HP and Epson running side by side. I don't recall the model number of the HP and he was clearly steering people toward the Epson for whatever reason. As far as Roland, we were not comfortable with the dealer closest to us and felt Roland was falling behind the curve in terms of quality and innovation. One Roland dealer at the show told us they were considering dropping the line in favor of HP due to support issues from Roland and ongoing problems with the new TrueVis printers. You have to take in all this info with a grain of salt. They all make good printers and there is always a reason a dealer that sells multiple lines to steer you toward a particular brand. I have friends with all the brands I mentioned above and they all love them, and they all print well. We chose the S40 printer over other 2 Epson models because we didn't need the extra inksets on the S80600 and felt the added speed wasn't worth the money for the S60600. With the deals Epson had, you could have almost purchased 2 - S40600's for the price of the S60600. We paired that with a Summa S2T160 cutter and are still using our old RS laminator. Printer/Cutter machines are still much slower than a separate printer and cutter and you still have to take off the print to laminate then feed back into the printer to cut it when you could be printing the next job. The Summa S2 T160 is blazingly fast and accurate. The S40 is plenty fast for our shop and while the eco solvent does smell, it's not bad and no one complains. You just get used to it. Epson claims that they are the only eco solvent printer mfg whose inks allow prints to be laminated the same day. The specs state to wait 8 hrs before lamination. We typically wait about 4 hours before we laminate and haven't had any issues. We've also done rush jobs and laminated almost immediately after printing, and I suspect most on this forum have done the same. The 3 heaters on the S40 are independently adjustable in temp and do a great job in the pre heating of the media as well as post curing. You'll have to play around to get the best settings for your particular media. As far as applications, we do wall & floor graphics, vehicle graphics, banners, signs, stickers and POP type materials, basic stuff (we do not do full wraps) and the printer runs most every day for most of the day. Our workload has not exceeded the capacity of the printer at this point. When It does, I will not hesiate to get another. So, right or wrong, that was my take away from doing my research. It may or may not be helpful to you and you may come to a totally different conclusion. My point is input from other shops is only part of the puzzle, go out and to the shows and talk to as many dealers as you can, ask questions and bring your own files to print off. Hope that helps a bit and good luck in your search.
I did a few calls after everyone else recommeded me latex and sadly there are no good distribution of hp latex in my country, so, no good support is a no.
Probably im going to take the "epson shop" idea(i actually really like to work with epson) and buy the S40600 with some good cutter and a laminatior machine.
you mentioned that you have DTG, i wanted to buy the epson surecolor 2100 for DTG but even the seller said that supplies are expensive, is it really that expensive?(i mean, does the inversion worth even if the cost of the supplies are a bit high?) this was the first idea before the large format digital print.
I didn't notice you were in Panama. Here in the US the ink for the F2000/2100 is $207.00 per 600ml cart. Dealers cannot discount them without getting in trouble with Epson. ImageAmour just came out with their brand 3rd party inks that look promising for $145.00. There is some scare tactics going around from Epson dealers that if you use 3rd party ink it will void your warranty. I confirmed with Epson directly that it is not the case. Personally, I'm staying with the genuine Epson inks. Ink cost is not the major factor as most non-white full front prints are less than $1.00 per print and white under print usually puts you in the low $2.00 range. We get $14.00 to $20.00 for low quantity DTG printed shirts so that ink cost is not a factor. You will find that time is your biggest cost factor when DTG printing. As far as the other maintenance supply, they are minimal. Probably about $20.00 - $25.00 per month. You will find that wide format digital printing on heat applied transfers is not ideal for full coverage prints. Feels like a large decal on the shirt, and costs more as well. Maybe you could find someone in the US to ship you supplies???
the shipping cost would be the problem also im worried about the time, how many t-shirts can you make per hour? (with a light desing), the screen printing is still an option but i know that if i want quality i need the F2100
The per hour figure is going to be tricky to determine as there are a lot of variables. I find that if the graphic can print in the same amount of time it takes to cure the ink on my Stahls Dual Air Fusion, usually about 45 seconds, I can do 60 in a hour if I really focus and keep on it, but I rarely use that figure when estimating. If it's a larger print or a two pass print, it can easily cut that in half. So 60 is going to be on the high side and not really sustainable for hours on end. Some of the heavy white prints with a 2 pass white and 2 pass color can take 4 minutes to print and 90 seconds plus to cure properly.
Make sure that whatever you get, that you have good local support. I think that will matter more than the small differences between any of the modern wide format printers. Here in the states, most manufacturers have a decent repair/support program. It might not be the same where you are.
If you like Epson, but they don't have a good support system there, you'll hit a brick wall when it goes down and it will be very costly to get someone in to do the repairs.. But if you get a Roland or Mimaki or Mutoh and there is support in the same town, you should be able to be back up and running within a few days.
Good Luck
If you like Epson, but they don't have a good support system there, you'll hit a brick wall when it goes down and it will be very costly to get someone in to do the repairs.. But if you get a Roland or Mimaki or Mutoh and there is support in the same town, you should be able to be back up and running within a few days.
Good Luck
Megagrafix
President
Megagrafix
President
HP late text model 570 for 20,000 USD (Grimco) and you do not need a thermal laminator a set of laminating rollers will serve you well and you’ll have money leftover.
ams
New Member
Every printer has it's pros and cons. For 30k I would get a print and cut machine. So then you have a printer and plotter both in one, I've had mine for 5 years and it's amazing. My favorite is Roland, great quality and are workhorses. Ink and supplies are inexpensive as well and it's an easy machine to do maintenance and repairs yourself on. However some people prefer HP because they are faster and it's a name brand. A couple different sign shop owner friends of mine own HP and they say the ink is very expensive and they haven't been happy with some features of it. I personally have zero experience outside of Roland for a printer. What you need to figure out is what printer is best for you. Are you making 25 banners a day? Go with a high production machine with print only. Do you do canvas prints and photographs? Go with a high quality slower machine. If you are mainly doing printed and contour cut items such as vehicle lettering, go with a print and cut.
Everyone is going to have a different opinion on here and while you can get sound advice, some people are diehard fans of their machines or brands. Do your own research as well.