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Flatbed Printers - Vanguard Print Settings & 2nd Printer Purchase

BALLPARK

New Member
Hello All,

We currently have a Vanguard 300D. We mainly print on 5x10 coroplast and I wanted to see what settings you are using on your Vanguard.

We have one row of heads on the printer.
We print in 8 pass for most prints.
We are going to update it to either 2 or 3 rows of heads.

Right now it's about 8 minutes for about a 4x8 print area.
It's about 12-13 minutes to print 12 yard signs on a 5x10.

If you don't mind to share your print passes and other settings for production runs of coro that would be great!

The quality of the prints are impressive. The speeds are not that great in terms of high production runs, but that can be a field upgrade to help the speeds improve. We are going to use this printer for art prints & secondary production runs. Then purchase another flatbed for faster production runs for coro, sintra, foamcore, etc...

We are currently looking to add another flatbed.

EFI 30F (New) - True Flatbed w/ Rigid Only
Speeds look great. 60 Sheets per hour on a 5x10.
Prints look great.
Ink adhesion is very good.
Up to 4" thick substrates.
High pricing point based on elite equipment.

SwissQ-Nyala 3 (New) - True Flatbed w/ Roll-to-Roll
Speeds look great. 60 Sheets per hour on a 5x10.
Prints are the best I've seen and the samples were highly impressive for art style prints.
Ink adhesion is great.
It can also print our 10ft wide banners using roll-to-roll.
Up to 4" thick substrates.
High pricing point based on elite equipment.

Vutek LX3 Pro w/ Ultra Drop (Used) - Hybrid Rigid & Roll-To-Roll
Speeds look great. 64-94 Sheets per hour on a 4x8. Not sure of the 5x10 sheets per hour.
Ink adhesion is very good.
We can print rigid or roll-to-roll.
Up to 2" thick substrates.
Value as used makes it look a bit better. Always a risk buying used...

...

What are your thoughts on the (3) printers listed above or do you have another option that should be considered?

Does anyone here have one of the (3) listed above and would like to share your experiences with the printer?

What type of prepping do you do for coro, sintra, acrylic, etc... when you print on your printer? We wipe alcohol on our coro and other rigid sheets.

I don't have a great knowledge base on Durst in terms of reading from current owner's experiences. They recently purchased Vanguard and we plan on keeping the Vanguard 300D active. Durst in my mind from seeing samples and print times are tied with Vutek as the Top 2 for hybrid flatbeds that can crush some pallets with a very good print quality even on their higher speeds.

We would like to have the ability to print roll-to-roll and rigid on the printer. However, we could end up purchasing a latex 126" printer for our banner production runs. So the flatbed does not need to print both, but it would be ideal to help us focus on other equipment needs instead of having to purchase a 126" latex roll-to-roll in the near future.

Speed is very important on this printer. The quality needs to be on par with the top brands.

Thank you for your feedback!
 

iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
I might be way off here as I don’t have a flatbed, but 8 passes for Coro sounds a bit overkill - might just be an issue of not utilising the higher print speeds?

Is there any reason you’re not sticking with vanguard? The 300D-HS seems to have the speeds you’re after? Also with the option of adding an extra row of heads.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
I've not had the time yet to test the printers different pass modes. It list it around 100+ passes in terms of passes on the RIP. I tried a quick 4 pass run as that felt like a better option and it reduced the yard sign size by 1 min per yard sign. But the curing setting was not changed and I found the prints to be a bit slick. I will have some time in about a month to fully run some quality test to find the optimal passes and settings for each media type.

We recently merged with another company. It's been a pain to get everything moved and setup again while we try to stay on course with deadlines. I've just allowed them to continue to run their settings until I have the proper amount of time to run the gauntlet of test on the speeds vs cure settings for each media.

Vanguard printers are very good. I hope to see them continue to grow under Durst. We are looking at their other options. We could end up staying with them... But the 3 listed above have some pretty large advantages compared to the Vanguard series. If we bring in another brand, then we would likely sell the Vanguard within 18 months and then purchase a duplicate of the printer we decided to go with over Vanguard.

We are at a fork in the road. The next printer we purchase will could lead to more Vanguards or it could lead to no Vanguards within 24 months. I don't like the idea for long term production runs having two different brands for our UV rigid. We are not able to purchase two new printers now to keep the consistency within reason. So it's a big decision on our future printers on the next printer we purchase.
 
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parrott

New Member
I would throw Digitech on your list. Their speed, quality and ink adhesion are incredible. If you are running lots of corrugated, their is not a machine that can beat it. The auto-unloader is a great feature and will keep your operator happy.
 

zspace

Premium Subscriber
We run 2 Digitechs - both are 4 head versions. We print coroplast yard signs at 2 or 3 pass which is up to 40 - 4x8's/hour. Their new 8 head versions at said to run 60+ sheets an hour, but I haven't clocked one yet.
 

MelloImagingTechnologies

Many years in the Production Business
Hello All,

We currently have a Vanguard 300D. We mainly print on 5x10 coroplast and I wanted to see what settings you are using on your Vanguard.

We have one row of heads on the printer.
We print in 8 pass for most prints.
We are going to update it to either 2 or 3 rows of heads.

Right now it's about 8 minutes for about a 4x8 print area.
It's about 12-13 minutes to print 12 yard signs on a 5x10.

If you don't mind to share your print passes and other settings for production runs of coro that would be great!

The quality of the prints are impressive. The speeds are not that great in terms of high production runs, but that can be a field upgrade to help the speeds improve. We are going to use this printer for art prints & secondary production runs. Then purchase another flatbed for faster production runs for coro, sintra, foamcore, etc...

We are currently looking to add another flatbed.

EFI 30F (New) - True Flatbed w/ Rigid Only
Speeds look great. 60 Sheets per hour on a 5x10.
Prints look great.
Ink adhesion is very good.
Up to 4" thick substrates.
High pricing point based on elite equipment.

SwissQ-Nyala 3 (New) - True Flatbed w/ Roll-to-Roll
Speeds look great. 60 Sheets per hour on a 5x10.
Prints are the best I've seen and the samples were highly impressive for art style prints.
Ink adhesion is great.
It can also print our 10ft wide banners using roll-to-roll.
Up to 4" thick substrates.
High pricing point based on elite equipment.

Vutek LX3 Pro w/ Ultra Drop (Used) - Hybrid Rigid & Roll-To-Roll
Speeds look great. 64-94 Sheets per hour on a 4x8. Not sure of the 5x10 sheets per hour.
Ink adhesion is very good.
We can print rigid or roll-to-roll.
Up to 2" thick substrates.
Value as used makes it look a bit better. Always a risk buying used...

...

What are your thoughts on the (3) printers listed above or do you have another option that should be considered?

Does anyone here have one of the (3) listed above and would like to share your experiences with the printer?

What type of prepping do you do for coro, sintra, acrylic, etc... when you print on your printer? We wipe alcohol on our coro and other rigid sheets.

I don't have a great knowledge base on Durst in terms of reading from current owner's experiences. They recently purchased Vanguard and we plan on keeping the Vanguard 300D active. Durst in my mind from seeing samples and print times are tied with Vutek as the Top 2 for hybrid flatbeds that can crush some pallets with a very good print quality even on their higher speeds.

We would like to have the ability to print roll-to-roll and rigid on the printer. However, we could end up purchasing a latex 126" printer for our banner production runs. So the flatbed does not need to print both, but it would be ideal to help us focus on other equipment needs instead of having to purchase a 126" latex roll-to-roll in the near future.

Speed is very important on this printer. The quality needs to be on par with the top brands.

Thank you for your feedback!
How many heads on your current Vanguard?
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
One thing manufactures wont mention is on true flatbed is changeover time for boards.

Id look at the oce arizona series with an XT bed as it has dual zones, no change over time as you can swap each zone while the other is printing.

for speed and true flatbed, oce arizona 6100 series. it's a bit old now, but they are bloody quick.
 

parrott

New Member
Hints why Digitech is the only true flatbed I know of with an auto unloader. You are loading as soon as it’s unloading. No time in between prints, true production. 60 boards an hour with load and unload. We do it all day, everyday.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
How many heads on your current Vanguard?
We have (3) heads / (1) row on the current flatbed. We have a price to do a field upgrade. But we need to run test to make sure it's just another row of heads and not additional heads based on what the tech has described. The current heads should be fine in terms of matching up a new row of heads.

We may do a field upgrade. We may sell it... we may trade it in... Still researching the best options and the best deals at this time.

I'm happy with the Vanguard's features, but more speed is needed on our version and then we need to duplicate it to ensure production runs are can stay on track if one goes down.
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
We see true production speeds of 18-22 BPH on the VK300D HS. This includes reset time for the carriage. I know they are working on Back and Forth printing on a multi-board job, but we don't have this on our machine yet. That will get us another 4-6 BPH. We measure in 4x8ft boards.

This is 600x1200, 2 Pass with Uniform Weak or Uniform Medium waveform. There are a crazy number of variables you can mess with, but this is where we landed.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
We see true production speeds of 18-22 BPH on the VK300D HS. This includes reset time for the carriage. I know they are working on Back and Forth printing on a multi-board job, but we don't have this on our machine yet. That will get us another 4-6 BPH. We measure in 4x8ft boards.

This is 600x1200, 2 Pass with Uniform Weak or Uniform Medium waveform. There are a crazy number of variables you can mess with, but this is where we landed.

I'm sure those settings are dialed in... thank you for sharing!

How many rows and number of heads do you have on your Vanguard 300D HS? Do you have any vacuum issues on thin media types?

I've always received top quality prints from your company, so I know your standards are high in terms of the number of passes and other variables before you lock them in.
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
We have the heads maxed out. I think it's 8 (Without white). With the new head designs, you can't just count them anymore. They have multiple colors per head etc. We can't fit any more in though.

Thin media can be an issue, but that just requires making sure you have the vacuum on and isolated to the specific area you are printing. I think if you run true 4x8's you would be in good shape as the machine has valves to isolate a true 4x8. All our material is oversized, so we actually mask of areas of the bed to get a perfect vacuum area.
 

zspace

Premium Subscriber
One thing manufactures wont mention is on true flatbed is changeover time for boards.

Id look at the oce arizona series with an XT bed as it has dual zones, no change over time as you can swap each zone while the other is printing.

for speed and true flatbed, oce arizona 6100 series. it's a bit old now, but they are bloody quick.

The times I posted - 40 beds per hour on a Digitech TruFire - are true production times including board changes without the auto-unloader. This includes the operator removing boards and either flipping or placing new one. We routinely run a full pallet of coroplast in a single shift.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
Our team decided to stick with the Vanguard series. We are trading in our Vk300D for a 300D-HS 8 Head and a 300D-HS 4 head.

We took a long look at TruFire which looks like a great printer option. I think TruFire is going to continue to grow as another good option for the mid level printers. Vanguard provided an aggressive price for the two new units and provided a good trade value for our used 300D series. In the end the trade-in and being able to secure two units made the Vanguard the best option for upgrades.

The other options would have been awesome to have as in the TruFire, SwissQ, Durst, or Vutek... but the pricing points on them had no option to secure two printers. We did not want to have to rely on just having one UV printer as the downtime can crush us with our primary clients.

We hope that Durst buying Vanguard will open up new opportunities in the future. The print quality is already there for a Vanguard series and they just need more speed to take it to the next level.

We are going to pair the printers with a Zund router. I'm very excited to get to do some packaging and custom cut signage.

Thank you all for the feedback. So many good options to decide from makes it hard to leave some of the comfort zones during the buying process.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
Yes with the trade-in on the older Vanguard. The two Vanguards will not be as fast as the other printers mentioned. But the quality is high and we can make this work for us.
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Redundancy is sure nice to have.

Sounds like you made a good choice for your company. We really do have alot of nice options as print service providers. I feel like there are better choices today than there were 5 years ago, and I'm not saying that just because the overall tech has gotten better.
 

BALLPARK

New Member
We mentioned your setup to our rep in terms of what we would like to dial in during the installation. You share a lot of good info within our industry and provide great services to the users on Signs101. I tip my hat to you, sir... keep it up!
 
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