Flatbed vs Roll, hot vs cold, too many options

[Alamo]

We are in the market to buy a laminator and I’m hoping someone can chime in to tell me if we’re making the right choice. Regarding roll vs flatbed, I think we’d like to start with a flatbed as we have a 4x8 flatbed printer so we can 1. Do flat media 2. Still do some roll media just in parts, and 3. Gain another work table that we need. I figured if we get into doing more roll media then we can add a roll laminator later on. We are looking at the CWT 1640 in the $20k range but I also noticed they have electric versions for more with heat assist. In what scenario would we need that? I’d hate to buy one then shortly find out we should’ve spent the extra money, whatever that may be, to have the heat

 

[signheremd]

We have a 1640 and it is the only laminator we have. We use it every day and really like it. We even use it to roll on translucent vinyl onto long faces (do about half at a time we have done up to 24' long). Ours does not have heat and is not electric with the exception of a light - which is useful to match colors up for rta or acrylic. I see no need for the electric, as far application other than for a light (underneath). To help keep the surface in good shape we roll on 54" clear lamination and replace twice a year. you will get some silvering with cold lamination, but an hours of sun will heat and cool and work that back out. Be sure to get at least one tack roller (we buy a new one on Amazon every couple of years). The CWT 1640 is one of our favorite tools.

 

[ikarasu]

I can't imagine laminating roll media on the flatbed that often. We do it when we need to laminate 60" but that's it.... Like once a month and we hate it.

With a flatbed printing most of your printing will be direct to substrate I presume. So the roll to roll printer is going to be for stickers / substrates you don't print on, wall graphics / other graphics? I'd hate to do those on a flatbed. What do you do when someone orders 500 stickers? Print it on 8 ft sections? Then unwind 8 ft of laminate, manually Lam the vinyl, unwind another 8 ft, etc? Think about it... If you print 50 ft of vinyl, not only do you have to split your prints up into 8 ft sections, you have to manually unwind the overlam 7 times, manually put it on 7 times... By the time you've laminated 10 ft it'd have all been laminated on a roll laminator.

A flatbed laminator is great - but if you're using it as a work table to do a ton of cutting and stuff, it turns into a not so great laminator. We use our flatbed 8 hours a day mounting aluminum / trimming signs... Brand new it's great,but now there's some flat spots where we use the table a lot that causes slight bubbling when laminating. Buy a new $750 cutting matt (because anything over a 48" cutting matt is crazy expensive...) And it's back to laminating perfectly... Until the pressure from mounting 1000 signs causes anotherndjp.

It may take you years to get to that point... but if you're also using it as a work table, it may take you even less. Every cut / knick / non smooth surface will make your laminating slightly worst -

It's the same reason we don't use our laminators for mounting - laminate is very finicky, the more pristine the rollers are .. the better your laminating goes.


At the very least, I'd buy the cwt and a $2-3000 cheapo laminator to do all the laminating on. Or budget it in knowing you should be buying it sooner than later.

Unless you plan on printing under 8 ft of roll vinyl a day . And if that's the case you should be outsourcing anyways.

 

[Dan Berg]

We are in the market to buy a laminator and I’m hoping someone can chime in to tell me if we’re making the right choice. Regarding roll vs flatbed, I think we’d like to start with a flatbed as we have a 4x8 flatbed printer so we can 1. Do flat media 2. Still do some roll media just in parts, and 3. Gain another work table that we need. I figured if we get into doing more roll media then we can add a roll laminator later on. We are looking at the CWT 1640 in the $20k range but I also noticed they have electric versions for more with heat assist. In what scenario would we need that? I’d hate to buy one then shortly find out we should’ve spent the extra money, whatever that may be, to have the heat

We have a beautiful Seal 62 Base with heat assist top roll for sale. $5995. These are $16k+ new Picked up only se Pa 19540.

 

[FrancisG]

I can't imagine laminating roll media on the flatbed that often. We do it when we need to laminate 60" but that's it.... Like once a month and we hate it.

With a flatbed printing most of your printing will be direct to substrate I presume. So the roll to roll printer is going to be for stickers / substrates you don't print on, wall graphics / other graphics? I'd hate to do those on a flatbed. What do you do when someone orders 500 stickers? Print it on 8 ft sections? Then unwind 8 ft of laminate, manually Lam the vinyl, unwind another 8 ft, etc? Think about it... If you print 50 ft of vinyl, not only do you have to split your prints up into 8 ft sections, you have to manually unwind the overlam 7 times, manually put it on 7 times... By the time you've laminated 10 ft it'd have all been laminated on a roll laminator.

A flatbed laminator is great - but if you're using it as a work table to do a ton of cutting and stuff, it turns into a not so great laminator. We use our flatbed 8 hours a day mounting aluminum / trimming signs... Brand new it's great,but now there's some flat spots where we use the table a lot that causes slight bubbling when laminating. Buy a new $750 cutting matt (because anything over a 48" cutting matt is crazy expensive...) And it's back to laminating perfectly... Until the pressure from mounting 1000 signs causes anotherndjp.

It may take you years to get to that point... but if you're also using it as a work table, it may take you even less. Every cut / knick / non smooth surface will make your laminating slightly worst -

It's the same reason we don't use our laminators for mounting - laminate is very finicky, the more pristine the rollers are .. the better your laminating goes.


At the very least, I'd buy the cwt and a $2-3000 cheapo laminator to do all the laminating on. Or budget it in knowing you should be buying it sooner than later.

Unless you plan on printing under 8 ft of roll vinyl a day . And if that's the case you should be outsourcing anyways.

While testing a CWT, I found that trying to mount a giclee print on to 10mm foamboard, the roller left an impressing on the print where it came down to position to grip it. Have you experienced this?

 

[ikarasu]

We get it all the time with reflective. On our rolls roller you can adjust the pressure, I'm assuming it's the same with the cwt... Lowering the pressure prevents marks for us

 

[tulsagraphics]

We get it all the time with reflective. On our rolls roller you can adjust the pressure, I'm assuming it's the same with the cwt... Lowering the pressure prevents marks for us

Frosted vinyl is bad about it too. It's best to have scrap at either end of the substrate so you're not lowering/lifting directly on the panel itself.

 

[bpp]

I'm looking to get a laminator for both 4x8 substrate and vinyl/magnet rolls. What's my best option and how does sign365 laminate the aluminum. I sent in some aluminum to get laminated and was not the same?

 

[MarkSnelling]

I'm looking to get a laminator for both 4x8 substrate and vinyl/magnet rolls. What's my best option and how does sign365 laminate the aluminum. I sent in some aluminum to get laminated and was not the same?

I sell Kala laminators as well as flatbed laminators from CWT and Colex. I've got a customer in Grand Rapids still looking to unload a brand new CWT worktable still in the crate. It is a 1640 flatbed.

 

[bpp]

Is flatbed the way to go? What do they run for

 

[Applied Graphics WY]

We have a beautiful Seal 62 Base with heat assist top roll for sale. $5995. These are $16k+ new Picked up only se Pa 19540.

How do you keep your laminate from ‘walking’? I have a 54” seal and no matter what I’ve done so far, I have a terrible issue with that. I taped a tube onto the backing roller, I center both tubes and it still walks. Avery clear backed laminate is the worst. (I’ve also noticed the backing seems to stick to the laminate with Avery.). I usually use arlon or oracal.

 

[MarkSnelling]

How do you keep your laminate from ‘walking’? I have a 54” seal and no matter what I’ve done so far, I have a terrible issue with that. I taped a tube onto the backing roller, I center both tubes and it still walks. Avery clear backed laminate is the worst. (I’ve also noticed the backing seems to stick to the laminate with Avery.). I usually use arlon or oracal.

Sounds like your nip is out of alignment. If you get a Seal tech in there to realign the rollers, you shouldn't see the media walk like you are.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Is flatbed the way to go? What do they run for

Sorry I didn't see your question. They run for the low to mid $20K range for a flatbed. It is important to understand that I wouldn't sell someone a flatbed laminator if they want to do a lot of laminating. If you want to set up and run long runs of laminate, then a flatbed is not the solution. If you spend more time premasking and mounting vinyl to boards than you do laminating, then it is a great fit. You can get into a Kala heat-assist roll laminator for under $15K which will do everything the flatbed machines do...just they don't mount images to boards quite as easily.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Is flatbed the way to go? What do they run for

Since you are in NJ, you can go see the difference between a roll and flatbed as it pertains to applications and processes at Colex. They are only about 20 minutes from EWR. I can set that up if you'd like to go over and see the units.

 

[bpp]

I'll wait a month till Atlanta and check my options. I'm just trying to understand the flatbed laminator why would a company spend so much if it's used for not so much laminating?
Thanks

 

[CanuckSigns]

I'll wait a month till Atlanta and check my options. I'm just trying to understand the flatbed laminator why would a company spend so much if it's used for not so much laminating?
Thanks

The term "flatbed laminator" is an industry term, the correct term is flatbed applicator. We have both a flatbed applicator and a roll laminator, it's a never ending battle to keep dust out of prints done on the flatbed, I think because the print is just sitting there for a few minutes completely rolled out, every single speck of dust shows. Also the flatbed doesn't do a great job of laminating, lots of silvering!

It's great if I have a short print that needs a different laminate than what I have webbed up in the roll laminator, but the roll laminator is the correct machine to use for laminating and if I could only have 1 machine it would be the roll.