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Flexi 8.6 not connecting with server
- Thread starter dj_elite
- Start date
MARIE LAFOLLETTE
Nature Coast Adventurer Discover Citrus County
Just stop . WildWestDesigns You are just worse than the corporate greed . Why would you be a major contributor with such anti small guy values . You need to just shut up and get off this topic because whoever you are you are wrong .
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Ahh yes, good ole ad hominem.
If I was against the small guy, why would I actively contribute to open source projects that are intended to give the smaller people the ability to use free and open source alternatives? That doesn't sound like someone that is worse then corporate greed. But then again, what do I know.
Most on here, know that I'm a huge open source fan. While some do still cost, the source code goes with it, which means the person can do anything that they want to it (with respect to the license agreement, yes open source does still have a license that goes along with it, some are more forgiving the others). All that time and effort that I put into projects for free, so people can use things for free. How is that against the small guy?
What I am not a fan of is theft. Even if it's theft masquerading as a means to right a perceived (may or may not be) wrong. That's just feeding into the corporate greed as you mention to continue to do what they are doing and/or make things worse. That's given them a legitimate excuse.
That doesn't hurt the ones that get the pirated copies, that hurts the little people that still do things on the up and up. What about the concern for those small guys?
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WildWestDesigns
Active Member
That person said that their paperwork said it was forever, not necessarily the EULA and I never could find out if it was bought from a 3rd party vendor or direct from Flexi. If it was through a 3rd party vendor's paperwork, that should be taken up with the 3rd party, in my mind.
One thing that I have to wonder is if they try to install it on a future version of Win 10 that is far removed from how it is now and it can't install? May or may not happen, but with the rolling release nature of Win 10, that is very possible. How are they going to be able to honor that "forever" then? That would require going back to the source code for that version and compiling and rebuilding on that latest version of Win 10 (or MS may go back on their comment about 10 being the last release and we have Win 12).
What happens if we start to go to ARM based computers (I hope not, but there is a huge push for that)? Expect them to compile a legacy version for ARM?
Nothing lasts forever. One of the few reasons why I have a hard time about Forever being in the EULA without some caveat in there.
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MARIE LAFOLLETTE
Nature Coast Adventurer Discover Citrus County
Dear Grandma
Due to the fact you refuse to have GMAIl acct and or a twitter /facebook acct . I cannot continue to connect with you . If you wish to connect with me please put $50 dollars in my paypal acct per month or $1700 in full .
Due to the fact you refuse to have GMAIl acct and or a twitter /facebook acct . I cannot continue to connect with you . If you wish to connect with me please put $50 dollars in my paypal acct per month or $1700 in full .
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Wow, I hope that I don't have a grandchild like that. That sucks big time.
We all have choices, how/what choices we make dictate who we are. I may be wrong in my steadfast black/white view on theft is theft regardless of the motivations behind it. I do have to wonder though, if someone is willing to let theft slip by in some areas of how they do things, does it also happen in other areas? Especially if it's another perceived righting a wrong?
I don't know, my mind starts to wonder about things like that. But that is total speculation on my part.
If you buy a program for $thousands$ of dollars you expect it to run. I can see if it won't run on Windows 10 after an upgrade from Win7, but if one day the seller makes it not run how is it so morally corrupt to get it going again?
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I expect it to run within the constraints that it was purchased in. Let's say you bought a version that has a dongle. I would expect to be able to get a replacement dongle within the time that the vendor allows for support of that software. If I happen to keep it running beyond that time and then the dongle craps out. It sucks, but it is what it is.
If I get a version that requires constant online activation (something that I personally would never do unless that was the only viable option as I don't believe production rigs should be online period) and that version has gone beyond it's life span of support, if the server keeps going and then craps out. Well it was a good run.
Now, they could have done what Adobe did with CS2, but we all saw how that ended up. People that didn't have a legit claim to exercise for that version still got it. I doubt Adobe will do that again. They may, but I doubt it.
Either way, as owners of the software, that is their right.
I'm not saying that I like that, far from it, but it's their right as owners of said software.
The main thrust of what I was talking about is legality. Bare in mind though, we you installed that software and you agreed to their terms of the EULA, including their protections, so you are breaking your contract, going back on your word. Which I would argue is morally wrong. It's tenuous at best though, it's a stretch.
Removing DRM is no bueno with regard to legality. Now, if here in the states, the laws recognized "abandoneware" that might be something else entirely. To my knowledge, we do not. I don't know about where you are at in Canada. Europe, I believe they do.
If the owner of the software wants to pull the plug on the servers as they aren't getting any money to justify the upkeep of the servers, that's their right. If they offer a patch for existing customers to negate the server issue, that is also their right to do. Bare in mind, we are talking about legacy software.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Hmmm, really?
Which is it? Want me to squirm or shut up?
MARIE LAFOLLETTE
Nature Coast Adventurer Discover Citrus County
Signs101Admin do you have any opinion on this ?
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I never said that I wanted SAI to screw the small business sign makers. Not once did I say that.
As far as my interest goes, anyone that uses any type of commercial software for any purpose, but especially a business purpose, would have an interest in how things play out.
I'm on the giving end of it just as much as the next person (and I have software that goes for far more then one version of Flexi and nowhere near the years of support), I do not believe theft is the answer however. That's the difference that you seem to be missing out on.
MARIE LAFOLLETTE
Nature Coast Adventurer Discover Citrus County
No I want you to explain to a business that paid 5k for a product , 7 thousand in today's dollars why you as a sign professional would think a software company can screw the base of people that helped them be the company they are today ?
I don't think it is "morally" right to have 20 pages of legal jargon with every conceivable legal stranglehold written in a language most people cannot decipher. Then 5 years later they shut down your software and say you agreed to it. If they stop their servers then the users who are left without use of what they paid for "morally" should be able to apply self help remedies to fix what the vendor broke. Not the law but seriously if they are still running old software they should be able to continue if they can self help. I am running Signlab 10 so I am talking about this from a theoretical viewpoint only. I have no dog in the fight.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
How long do you think that they should realistically support a legacy version of a product whose version they no longer sell and no longer bring in current money on?
I have software that goes for $15k for one version and they only support the current version. They release a new one somewhere between 2 to 5 yrs. I know this going in. Let me tell you something the sting of $15k is far more then $5k and only getting 2-5 yrs of support. I think I feel the sting more then most on here.
When you install their software, you agreed to it. Doesn't matter if you read the EULA or not. In fact, some software installers won't enable the OK button until you have scrolled through the EULA. Again, doesn't matter if you truly read it or used the mouse wheel to quickly scroll through it.
I do not like this, but it is what it is and has been that way for a long, long time.
If one doesn't like it, go to a different product.
If their legit customer base shrinks, that might get them to rethink things. Go to theft, your feeding in to a legit reason why they say they do what they do.
How long as Flexi 8.6 been out? I was thinking it was around 10 yrs, but that was coming from someone else in a different thread. It's based on when it was released, not when you bought it.
MARIE LAFOLLETTE
Nature Coast Adventurer Discover Citrus County
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I'm not exactly rolling in the dough my self. Not only do I know quite a few shops, I've helped them to the best of my ability(mainly with their IT). Anybody on this forum that has dealt with me in PMs, emails or on the phone, knows that I do my best to help out in anyway that I can.
That doesn't change how I think of certain things. I may not like how things are, I may not agree with them, so don't think that (although I doubt you'll think otherwise).
Oh and I have quite a few friends in NC where software is the least of their worries.
dj_elite
New Member
Update: Finally I got Flexi working again. I have gone back to v8.5 instead of 8.6 but at least I can run my machines again. My gripe from the start was my Flexi license stated unlimited. When calling and speaking to management it was just a simple "you need to upgrade" attitude. They claimed they offered me a few solutions before the time ran out which is bull because I was never contacted. I find it amusing they gave an expiration of software support and what not even 2 months later the server goes down? How convenient? Well I contacted BBB and filed a complaint. Flexi reached out with the same BS that they offered me solutions before software support expiration. Again they did not and I simply explained that if they had why wouldn't I take a solution and be in the predicament I was in. After going back and forth a bunch of times they offered me a USB dongle, which was one of the solutions they supposedly contacted me with, and explained it was not guaranteed to work. I explained how if it worked I was more than willing to pay for it. Again they had no guarantees. More going back and forth how this is bad business practice and unfair to any of us put in this situation and they sent me a dongle I think just to shut me up really. Well I received it last night and installed it and now Flexi is back up and running. There is no need for any business to go to this extent to deceive customers. They know they can make it work but push the upgrade for profits. Its sad really. Before all of this I always loved their customer support and afterall it is an amazing program. Oh and lets not forget at one point they straight up told me they can no longer make dongles for these "legacy" programs. Lets see how long the dongle lasts now, because I'm pretty sure I'm never getting a replacement...
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
If you think this is bad, wait and see if Apple gets their way in Norway next year (it's the appeal now, Apple lost the 1st go round, thing is they are coming up with this type of stuff). Eventually that'll trickle down to other areas (so don't think because it is in Norway that it wouldn't happen here eventually).