Florida Sign Contractor Law Change?

[Notarealsignguy]

I hear people complain all the time about how annoying it is sign regulations very from city to city, but this is exactly why I don't complain. Our city of 100K doesn't need the same regulations as a city of 1mil. One size fits all stuff like this makes it extremely difficult for the small shops to operate. People wonder why the "mom & pop" businesses are disappearing.

We have a state sign association that would have done some lobbying against this as well as getting ISA involved. Does Florida not have a sign association?

Any chance they changed the GC license requirements along with this legislation?

They had state licenses then they had city & county certificates of competency. Most small contractors don't travel far from home so they could get a license like that, it's the same deal with the exams and financial responsibility BUT there were a ton more categories. A fence guy could get a license to install fence only, same with signs and a lot of other trades. The good side of it is that they eliminated the need for licensing in some categories that were just stupid like painting, flooring, cabinets etc as long as it doesn't require a permit. If it does, then you have to be a GC. The problem is, they kept the licensing requirements for certain trades like non-electrical signs but threw it into general and building contracting. As far as I know, that means that any installation of a sign would require a GC license even if it does not require a permit or you'd be considered an unlicensed contractor which is a $10k fine down here.

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

They had state licenses then they had city & county certificates of competency. Most small contractors don't travel far from home so they could get a license like that, it's the same deal with the exams and financial responsibility BUT there were a ton more categories. A fence guy could get a license to install fence only, same with signs and a lot of other trades. The good side of it is that they eliminated the need for licensing in some categories that were just stupid like painting, flooring, cabinets etc as long as it doesn't require a permit. If it does, then you have to be a GC. The problem is, they kept the licensing requirements for certain trades like non-electrical signs but threw it into general and building contracting. As far as I know, that means that any installation of a sign would require a GC license even if it does not require a permit or you'd be considered an unlicensed contractor which is a $10k fine down here.

That's nuts to have to be a GC just to install a simple sign. Oh well, good thing one of my best friends is a GC. Looks like I am going to have to hit him up.

On another note, will a licensed Electrical Sign Contractor be able to pull permits for non-electric signs? Maybe I should look into that license instead...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

That's nuts to have to be a GC just to install a simple sign. Oh well, good thing one of my best friends is a GC. Looks like I am going to have to hit him up.

On another note, will a licensed Electrical Sign Contractor be able to pull permits for non-electric signs? Maybe I should look into that license instead...

I was wondering that too. This isn't really related to what you asked but we were told by SLC that an electrician can pull a permit for an electrical sign.

 

[Scotchbrite]

They had state licenses then they had city & county certificates of competency. Most small contractors don't travel far from home so they could get a license like that, it's the same deal with the exams and financial responsibility BUT there were a ton more categories. A fence guy could get a license to install fence only, same with signs and a lot of other trades. The good side of it is that they eliminated the need for licensing in some categories that were just stupid like painting, flooring, cabinets etc as long as it doesn't require a permit. If it does, then you have to be a GC. The problem is, they kept the licensing requirements for certain trades like non-electrical signs but threw it into general and building contracting. As far as I know, that means that any installation of a sign would require a GC license even if it does not require a permit or you'd be considered an unlicensed contractor which is a $10k fine down here.

So if I'm understanding correctly, previously sign contractors and fence contractors only had to get licenses from local governments? But now the state has specifically lumped them in state licensing requirements?

Sounds like it used to work in FL like it does in CO. We have to get a license in the cities we are working in, but there is no state license requirement. Man, I hope that change doesn't come here. Or if it does, hopefully they have more categories for the state license.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So if I'm understanding correctly, previously sign contractors and fence contractors only had to get licenses from local governments? But now the state has specifically lumped them in state licensing requirements?

Sounds like it used to work in FL like it does in CO. We have to get a license in the cities we are working in, but there is no state license requirement. Man, I hope that change doesn't come here. Or if it does, hopefully they have more categories for the state license.

Yes that is correct as far as I understand it. The basis for this seemed to be more about taking power away from local government than anything else which is happening more often unfortunately. The option was always there for certain trades, like building contractors, to get a state license that was good everywhere. They could have removed the licensing requirements for the trades they did without barring municipalities from issuing certificates of competency. You did have to get one in each jurisdiction but that wasn't a big deal because every locality reciprocated licensing. It wouldn't surprise me if the AGC has their hands in it either.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Yeah, we probably have a dozen different licenses on our board for the different cities we work in.

I don't think the state legislators fully appreciated the burden they're putting on the small contractors. They're just going to create a "black market" of shops doing work under the radar.

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

The way I read it, the State of Florida is dropping licensing requirements for non-critical trades to free up the market place. It's the cities imposing the permitting requirements that are the issue. They are now the ones that will continue to require full blown licensing for things that the State of Florida is not worried about. I could be wrong but given Ron Desantis's track record of believing in the free market, that is what I see as happening. And of course, the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head once again. Never underestimate the governments ability to screw things up...

 

[MikePatterson]

I wouldn't mind the state license "IF" it cut out the city registration and fees. Every time I turn around we are having to register with a town.
But even if a state requires a license with the intent of streamlining everything and not forcing contractors to register with cities, the local governments will never quit requiring registration and "FEES". Once government starts something no matter how small they usually never abandon it especially if they gain power and charge money for it.

On a side not I have mixed emotions about licensing. One side of me likes it because it might slow down crappy installs that fail from shady sign shops. The other side of me hates it because its just another bureaucratic hoop to jump through just to be in business. We have a rampant problem with illegal sign installs our area.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

The way I read it, the State of Florida is dropping licensing requirements for non-critical trades to free up the market place. It's the cities imposing the permitting requirements that are the issue. They are now the ones that will continue to require full blown licensing for things that the State of Florida is not worried about. I could be wrong but given Ron Desantis's track record of believing in the free market, that is what I see as happening. And of course, the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head once again. Never underestimate the governments ability to screw things up...

That is correct, cities/counties are no longer allowed to require licensing. It doesn't really do anything though because you could always have had a state license to avoid having to get one in each county. They could have simply eliminated the need for certain trades to be licensed, that was imposed by the state to begin with and the reason the municipalities also had certificates of competency. Some trades did not have a state license available so you had to get a license in each area BUT that was because the state required the license in the first place. It just seems like more political problem creation so they have something to pat themselves on the back for fixing. Forcing a bunch of trades under GC licensing requirements isn't doing a bunch of justice for a lot of people. The simple solution would have been for the state to just remove licensing requirements in certain trades and left the rest as is.

 

[Jean Shimp]

I know this discussion is old but has anyone found a solution for the Florida non-electric sign contractor license issue. I just talked to the State of Florida and they said they don't have a non-electric sign category. How am I supposed to get a state certified license so we can pull permits if I am a non-electric sign company. Says the agent "we don't have a category for that". Yeah, but we just want to dig a couple of holes and put up a sign like we have been doing for the past 30 years. How do we pull permits if we are required to be state certified and you don't have a category for non-electric signs certification? Says the agent "we don't have a category for that".

 

[JBurton]

Says the agent "we don't have a category for that".

"Ok, screw a sign permit, I need to install an ornamental fence, 4x8, on two posts, where do I get a permit for that?"

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

You need a contractor's license to do a simple sign like that. Florida is stupid with the permit processes, licensing and engineering on everything.

 

[Jean Shimp]

You need a contractor's license to do a simple sign like that. Florida is stupid with the permit processes, licensing and engineering on everything.

We have a sign contractor's license. However we do not have an Electrical Sign contractor's license.

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

We have a sign contractor's license. However we do not have an Electrical Sign contractor's license.

What specific license do you have from the State of Florida? I have another municipality that is insisting there is a non-electrical sign contractors license in Florida and I am beating my head against a wall. If I need to I will apply for whatever license I have to at this point.

 

[Jean Shimp]

What specific license do you have from the State of Florida? I have another municipality that is insisting there is a non-electrical sign contractors license in Florida and I am beating my head against a wall. If I need to I will apply for whatever license I have to at this point.

We have a "Non-electrical sign contractor's license". We had to take a contractor's test for this. It's probably been over twenty years ago that we got it. It allows us to pull permits in Duval County and a few other reciprocating counties. However, some counties refuse to allow us to pull permits to install signs. They are insisting that we get a Florida state certified license. The only options are to get an Electrical Sign Contractor's license or a General Contractor's license. This is what I was told by someone in the State's office. They do not certify non-electrical sign contractors.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

We have a "Non-electrical sign contractor's license". We had to take a contractor's test for this. It's probably been over twenty years ago that we got it. It allows us to pull permits in Duval County and a few other reciprocating counties. However, some counties refuse to allow us to pull permits to install signs. They are insisting that we get a Florida state certified license. The only options are to get an Electrical Sign Contractor's license or a General Contractor's license. This is what I was told by someone in the State's office. They do not certify non-electrical sign contractors.

I tried to get one down here in Lee county but the year I moved here they stopped issuing them at the county level and referred me to that state contractor license. Whole different ball game.

 

[Jean Shimp]

I tried to get one down here in Lee county but the year I moved here they stopped issuing them at the county level and referred me to that state contractor license. Whole different ball game.

Yes, it is really frustrating. I don't like being cynical, but the State od Florida has caused us to lose an income stream for no good reason. We have been installing signs for several years in several counties, doing everything the right way, and in essence they have taken away our license to install signs. I wonder if the ISA can help with this issue.

 

[TopFliteGraphics]

We have a "Non-electrical sign contractor's license". We had to take a contractor's test for this. It's probably been over twenty years ago that we got it. It allows us to pull permits in Duval County and a few other reciprocating counties. However, some counties refuse to allow us to pull permits to install signs. They are insisting that we get a Florida state certified license. The only options are to get an Electrical Sign Contractor's license or a General Contractor's license. This is what I was told by someone in the State's office. They do not certify non-electrical sign contractors.

Yeah, according to the DBPR that license no longer exists. I am in the same boat now. Have to decide whether to get a GC License or an Electrical Sign Contractor Specialty License. Overkill for what I do but may be worth it if I start doing electrical signs...

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I've seen too many poorly designed sign and had to rush out in the middle of the night too many times to take down a compromised sign. Anybody who puts up anything more that a step-in real estate sign should have at least some knowledge in standard practices and basic structural engineering. In my area, you need to be a licensed contractor to secure a permit. Submitting stamped engineering drawings is standard for any structural signs. I'm surprised our industry has been as lenient as it has!

 

[Jean Shimp]

I've seen too many poorly designed sign and had to rush out in the middle of the night too many times to take down a compromised sign. Anybody who puts up anything more that a step-in real estate sign should have at least some knowledge in standard practices and basic structural engineering. In my area, you need to be a licensed contractor to secure a permit. Submitting stamped engineering drawings is standard for any structural signs. I'm surprised our industry has been as lenient as it has!

I agree with everything you say. My issue is that we ARE qualified to install non-electric signs and should not be prohibited to pull permits to do so. We studied and took the sign contractor's test (which was not easy) and passed the test. We have over 30 years' experience pulling permits and installing signs. Permitted signs must be built according to the current Florida Building Code. We are required to submit structural plans that are engineered according to wind load and code specifications. A footer inspection is required before installing, and a final inspection ensures everything is done correctly. I don't understand the logic behind requiring an electrical contractor's license to install a non-electric sign.