Opinion General Formulations 201 HTAP - Recent changes?

[White Haus]

Has anyone noticed any difference in performance in General Formulations 201 HTAP vinyl lately?

We've been experiencing lots of issues & complaints which we've never encountered in the last 10+ years of using this film.

It's almost like the adhesive is so aggressive that it won't release from the liner.

It's happened across multiple rolls/lots and appears to be an issue regardless of process or any other variables, which leads me to think something has changed either with the adhesive properties or the liner. Laminated, unlaminated, UV, solvent, etc etc. All roads lead to a change in the film.

We usually through cut our decals on our Summa flatbed and have recently had 2 orders come back (run a couple of months apart) with customers complaining that they're impossible to peel. Further testing in house has confirmed the issue.

Anyone else encounter any issues?

 

[Glavin_ID]

So I don’t use that material and I’m sorry for hijacking your post, but I would love to know how you like your summa flatbed cutter? I am looking at the F1832, currently using an old colex, curious what real users think.

 

[Pauly]

So I don’t use that material and I’m sorry for hijacking your post, but I would love to know how you like your summa flatbed cutter? I am looking at the F1832, currently using an old colex, curious what real users think.

Summas a great but not for routing.
The difference between the colex and summa are the manual measure of the tools and it not knowing the tool in the machine. and the colex uses a rack and pinion system which is far more robust.

I had an option between both. We went the colex 1732

If you run the Summa S2- or S3 with camera, then you can do the twin workflow with the F series. To do the same with colex you need additional software.

 

[Snydo]

Had this issue with 203 HTAP early this year, ultimately GF replaced a full pallet and it's been great since and we average around 20 rolls a month. It's a release liner issue.

 

[White Haus]

Had this issue with 203 HTAP early this year, ultimately GF replaced a full pallet and it's been great since and we average around 20 rolls a month. It's a release liner issue.

Thanks for the feedback, will send you a PM.

 

[White Haus]

So I don’t use that material and I’m sorry for hijacking your post, but I would love to know how you like your summa flatbed cutter? I am looking at the F1832, currently using an old colex, curious what real users think.

All good. We like it, and have learned to leverage its capabilities since purchasing it 5 years ago. We went with the F1612 and unless space is a huge concern, I wouldn't recommend that specific model. The working area and having to work with 2-3 segments to process a 4' x 8' are less than ideal. (I knew it would be an issue and we had space restrictions, just warning anyone that might have space for a bigger unit - get the biggest size you can fit)
We got the basic router option on it, and have gotten decent use out of it, but not a perfect set up. Personally if space/money was no issue, I'd have something like a F1832 (or let's be real, a Zund if money is no issue) for every day vinyl, soft rigid work and then a standalone 5x10 CNC for just routing hard materials.

It works well in terms of accuracy etc. but is far from perfect. It really depends on what you're expecting it to do and what kind of work you do. As far as being a jack of all trades, it does a decent job. If you want kiss-cut and through cut decals all day/night long, it will do a good job of that. Quickly cutting banners, prints etc is fast and accurate. Interface (GoProduce) is a bit clunky and I'd like to have a word with the software engineers about their thought process sometimes but it gets the job done.

Would I buy another one? I'm not sure. I've never had a chance to play with a Colex/Esko/Zund before but I'd think long and hard before just buying the "cheapest" offering out there. I think we got good value out of our purchase - it's paid off and gets used every day. But I've also realized just how dependant we are on it and how much of a bottleneck it can become when it's acting up. If we had a better/faster/bigger version I think it would eliminate a lot of headaches that we encounter when we get busy, and we're a fairly small shop.

Hope that helps.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Had this issue with 203 HTAP early this year, ultimately GF replaced a full pallet and it's been great since and we average around 20 rolls a month. It's a release liner issue.

Has anyone noticed any difference in performance in General Formulations 201 HTAP vinyl lately?

We've been experiencing lots of issues & complaints which we've never encountered in the last 10+ years of using this film.

It's almost like the adhesive is so aggressive that it won't release from the liner.

It's happened across multiple rolls/lots and appears to be an issue regardless of process or any other variables, which leads me to think something has changed either with the adhesive properties or the liner. Laminated, unlaminated, UV, solvent, etc etc. All roads lead to a change in the film.

We usually through cut our decals on our Summa flatbed and have recently had 2 orders come back (run a couple of months apart) with customers complaining that they're impossible to peel. Further testing in house has confirmed the issue.

Anyone else encounter any issues?

Likely just a bad batch of release liner. It happens from time to time where the siliconized liner isn't siliconized enough hence the resistance to being removed. GF should replace it once they see what batch number you have.

Drytac's Polar Grip Air is a similar product in design. I was a bit surprised when a customer of mine did a Chicago Bear's graphic on an old brick wall and it stuck flawlessly. I would have thought losing 20% of the adhesive on the surface would not allow it to really grab on...but it did. The product should save you a few bucks against Gen Form is you wanted to take a look...I'm sure ND has plenty in stock.

 

[White Haus]

Likely just a bad batch of release liner. It happens from time to time where the siliconized liner isn't siliconized enough hence the resistance to being removed. GF should replace it once they see what batch number you have.

Drytac's Polar Grip Air is a similar product in design. I was a bit surprised when a customer of mine did a Chicago Bear's graphic on an old brick wall and it stuck flawlessly. I would have thought losing 20% of the adhesive on the surface would not allow it to really grab on...but it did. The product should save you a few bucks against Gen Form is you wanted to take a look...I'm sure ND has plenty in stock.

Thanks Mark. Pretty wide lot # range which is concerning but we'll see if we can find a solution.

I've had a quick look at Polar Grip before and can't quite get past the adhesive residue that oozes out of the edges of the rolls - not a good sign and gums up our printers. I do like Drytac as a company though, they make good products.

 

[MarkSnelling]

Thanks Mark. Pretty wide lot # range which is concerning but we'll see if we can find a solution.

I've had a quick look at Polar Grip before and can't quite get past the adhesive residue that oozes out of the edges of the rolls - not a good sign and gums up our printers. I do like Drytac as a company though, they make good products.

solvent or latex? I sell a ton of it and don't get that feedback....I wonder if you have the heat platen up too high? It has twice the amount of adhesive so that absolutely could happen...most of my customers run UV so there isn't a lot of heat for it to ooze out. Good luck!

 

[White Haus]

solvent or latex? I sell a ton of it and don't get that feedback....I wonder if you have the heat platen up too high? It has twice the amount of adhesive so that absolutely could happen...most of my customers run UV so there isn't a lot of heat for it to ooze out. Good luck!

Solvent and UV-LED, and it's visible before the vinyl even hits the printer so not a heat/processing thing.