Question Graphtec vs Summa for sheets of stickers/which has a "better" workflow using only rasterlink?

[RonnyCrack]

I cut a decent amount of sheets out on my ucjv300-160, blades still last me a decent amount of time as I only cut 1-2000 sheets per month, and some die-cut stickers. so most of my cutting is still just contour/kiss.

The Summa initially sounds like the better option to me, mostly because so many on here recommend it. Not having to switch blade positions for contour and perf cut sounds very convenient, and is what I'm used to on my Mimaki.
This leads me to the conundrum of why I'd want the graphtec though - the cut channel will probably save the cutting strip from the beating that the summa's would take from the perf-cuts.

Is it more annoying to switch the cutting strip so often than move blade positions every time?

___

I read that summa and graphtec both allow for continuous cutting with barcodes, I was just wondering if anybody had experience using/comparing both illustrator plugins to add registration marks, then print using rasterlink, then cut using the proprietary software(s)?
Which is easier, are they the same level of difficulty, etc? I don't mind doing a bit of extra work in illustrator if it means I can still set an entire roll up and walk away while saving a few thousand bucks for now.

I know neither will be perfect, and that rasterlink is leagues behind other RIP software. But it's what I've got right now, and the extra "hands on deck" from an additional cutter means more to me than a perfect workflow.

Thanks!

Ron

 

[Snydo]

If you want to make a one-time purchase that will last you possibly decades - go with a Summa S2-T and it's improbable you will ever doubt your decision.

 

[KaranGrewal]

Go with Summa S2-T

 

[FireSprint.com]

We run graphtecs. The channel is where it’s at. We run an onyx workflow though.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either, but we sold our summa after only a year and took a $5000 hit once we tried the graphtec. Workflow is everything for us though.

 

[InkHead]

We use a summa S2 t-160 with OPOS cam. It's very fast and we do mostly die cut decals/stickers. Don't have any experience with graphtecs but the channel seems cool. We also have a UCJV300. Summas illustrator plugin is pretty easy to use. It will add it and then you can print in rasterlink.

Not sure what your ink setup is on the UCJV but we use Flexi subscription service. It will add the barcodes and everything. Just import your artwork and send to print and it has the barcode. Easy peasy. Now if you have the white and clear ink setup. We have never got it to work. So all CMYK prints are done in flexi and anything with white or clear still gets printed in Rasterlink unfortunately

 

[FrankW]

If you cut sheets, perhaps multiple identical sheets, Summa has a sheet mode which will allow to cut multiple identical sheets easy and fast.

 

[RonnyCrack]

If you cut sheets, perhaps multiple identical sheets, Summa has a sheet mode which will allow to cut multiple identical sheets easy and fast.

Looking at a video of the sheet mode, I more so meant, I cut varying sized pages of stickers from job to job. Sheet was probably the wrong word. I've just read that the graphtec blades and cutting strip will last me longer if I'm doing a lot of perf-cutting. I guess I don't quite know what "a lot" is.

I want to put a printed roll on, press a few buttons, have it contour cut the whole roll. Then reload roll (or not have to on the Summa?) and perf-cut the pages out of the roll.

 

[FrankW]

If the "sheets" are multiple different and identical jobs printed on a roll, the Summa OPOS BARCODE will help you automate that. The cutter will identify the cut jobs it needs automatically by reading a printed barcode, there are only a few buttons at the first job for starting the process.

If you cut a small amount of jobs, eben then the barcode process will help because you do not need to identify and send the correct contour job yourself.

 

[RonnyCrack]

If the "sheets" are multiple different and identical jobs printed on a roll, the Summa OPOS BARCODE will help you automate that. The cutter will identify the cut jobs it needs automatically by reading a printed barcode, there are only a few buttons at the first job for starting the process.

If you cut a small amount of jobs, eben then the barcode process will help because you do not need to identify and send the correct contour job yourself.

So this will contour cut every job, re-roll the roll, and then perf-cut pages for every job?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Not sure with the Summa but with the Graphtec you can setup the barcode inside Corel or AI without the need for a different RIP since you want to use Rasterlink. The graphtec can also read the jobs on a thumb drive without being connected to a PC. They have tutorials on their website that go through all of the features

 

[FrankW]

So this will contour cut every job, re-roll the roll, and then perf-cut pages for every job?

No. It works job by job.

 

[balstestrat]

You can sort of have it like that if you have a Take up. First run only kisscut then reload it backwards and run Perf.

 

[RonnyCrack]

Not sure with the Summa but with the Graphtec you can setup the barcode inside Corel or AI without the need for a different RIP since you want to use Rasterlink. The graphtec can also read the jobs on a thumb drive without being connected to a PC. They have tutorials on their website that go through all of the features

Do you know if I can run it back through the other way for perf cutting after I contour cut? Or at the very least, feed it back in, spin the roll back up by hand, and run it through again to perf cut? Wouldn't mind the bit of extra work if it meant having the printer free.

 

[BluetailGFX]

If you setup the Summa and use Onyx, then you will setup all of your cutting preferences in Onyx CUT-Server, then in One Job, you will setup and designate both the Kiss and the Flex cuts and send both at once to the plotter. The Summa will always first cut the Kiss info, then cut the Flex info, regardless of the "Cut Layer Order" shown in CUT-Server.

Once its done, the plotter will advance and "read" the next barcode. Then you need to note that code, find it in CUT-Server and send the next file.

To truly use the Summa to run a whole roll you will NEED the added Take Up Reel attachment on the Summa.

Without it, you will have to do a Page Cut at the plotter after its finished a job, then redo the OPOS alignment again to the barcode that it just automatically read. Then send the next print files cut info..........

This typically works out though for my production...... I keep most sticker and sheet sticker runs to under 72" in length. (this way if there is a screw up in cutting, I am not having to reprint 10' of media, because 30 stickers cut just outside of the bleed) So I may send the same print file to the printer in groups of 50 to hit the needed say 300 total quantity. So as it is cutting, One Person can use CUT-Server to send the cutting info, and they can be cutting each finished cut print run group from the cutter and start popping and separating the stickers/sheets, WHILE they have already sent the next group to the plotter.

Typically the timing works out this way and there is not a bunch of standing around waiting to do something. By the time the person is done plucking and separating, the latest cut is done, cut the sheet, redo OPOS, send the cut info, start plucking while new cut info is working on the plotter...... repeat.

 

[balstestrat]

If you setup the Summa and use Onyx, then you will setup all of your cutting preferences in Onyx CUT-Server, then in One Job, you will setup and designate both the Kiss and the Flex cuts and send both at once to the plotter. The Summa will always first cut the Kiss info, then cut the Flex info, regardless of the "Cut Layer Order" shown in CUT-Server.

Once its done, the plotter will advance and "read" the next barcode. Then you need to note that code, find it in CUT-Server and send the next file.

To truly use the Summa to run a whole roll you will NEED the added Take Up Reel attachment on the Summa.

Without it, you will have to do a Page Cut at the plotter after its finished a job, then redo the OPOS alignment again to the barcode that it just automatically read. Then send the next print files cut info..........

This typically works out though for my production...... I keep most sticker and sheet sticker runs to under 72" in length. (this way if there is a screw up in cutting, I am not having to reprint 10' of media, because 30 stickers cut just outside of the bleed) So I may send the same print file to the printer in groups of 50 to hit the needed say 300 total quantity. So as it is cutting, One Person can use CUT-Server to send the cutting info, and they can be cutting each finished cut print run group from the cutter and start popping and separating the stickers/sheets, WHILE they have already sent the next group to the plotter.

Typically the timing works out this way and there is not a bunch of standing around waiting to do something. By the time the person is done plucking and separating, the latest cut is done, cut the sheet, redo OPOS, send the cut info, start plucking while new cut info is working on the plotter...... repeat.

But sending the jobs manually with the barcode..... Why?
It can retrieve the jobs from Cutserver automatically with the barcode. You don't have to manually send them.

You can also automate the sheet cut between the jobs.

 

[BluetailGFX]

But sending the jobs manually with the barcode..... Why?
It can retrieve the jobs from Cutserver automatically with the barcode. You don't have to manually send them.

You can also automate the sheet cut between the jobs.

I never got the auto sheet cut to actually function and leave enough media before the next barcode, without tripping the media sensor.

I probly need to add more space between the barcodes being printed in the RIP. Have to give it another shot though now that you mention it.

But I imagine I would still have to go to the plotter and note the next file name to find it in the CUT-Server? I have never seen it actually automatically bring up the next needed cut file........ Perhaps a setting on the plotter i am unaware of?

 

[balstestrat]

But I imagine I would still have to go to the plotter and note the next file name to find it in the CUT-Server? I have never seen it actually automatically bring up the next needed cut file........ Perhaps a setting on the plotter i am unaware of?

No, you have to have a barcode server on the PC running. Click that small cogwheel/go to the cutter settings. There is a selection for "Enable roll server".
Turn that on and next time the cutter should get the job from Cutserver all by itself.

 

[RonnyCrack]

If you setup the Summa and use Onyx, then you will setup all of your cutting preferences in Onyx CUT-Server, then in One Job, you will setup and designate both the Kiss and the Flex cuts and send both at once to the plotter. The Summa will always first cut the Kiss info, then cut the Flex info, regardless of the "Cut Layer Order" shown in CUT-Server.

Once its done, the plotter will advance and "read" the next barcode. Then you need to note that code, find it in CUT-Server and send the next file.

To truly use the Summa to run a whole roll you will NEED the added Take Up Reel attachment on the Summa.

Without it, you will have to do a Page Cut at the plotter after its finished a job, then redo the OPOS alignment again to the barcode that it just automatically read. Then send the next print files cut info..........

This typically works out though for my production...... I keep most sticker and sheet sticker runs to under 72" in length. (this way if there is a screw up in cutting, I am not having to reprint 10' of media, because 30 stickers cut just outside of the bleed) So I may send the same print file to the printer in groups of 50 to hit the needed say 300 total quantity. So as it is cutting, One Person can use CUT-Server to send the cutting info, and they can be cutting each finished cut print run group from the cutter and start popping and separating the stickers/sheets, WHILE they have already sent the next group to the plotter.

Typically the timing works out this way and there is not a bunch of standing around waiting to do something. By the time the person is done plucking and separating, the latest cut is done, cut the sheet, redo OPOS, send the cut info, start plucking while new cut info is working on the plotter...... repeat.



View attachment 162578

If it does things job by job, why is the take-up reel necessary? Could I let it kiss cut, perf cut, then let it run the next job while everything gets caught in the basket? And thank you for the info this visualization helped a lot. And we seem to do similar work. Are you pretty happy with the perf-cutting functionality on the summa/which kind do you have?

 

[Joe House]

You can actually do both kiss cut and perf cut on either the cut strip or the over the groove with a Graphtec. No need to switch tool positions. Just make sure that you calibrate your settings for the position you cutting over.

Both are good machines IMHO and I don't think you'd regret either once you learn to use it properly.

Good Luck

 

[Snydo]

Summa Cutter Control works well with Onyx, just point CC to your Thrive/cutter/Summa folder, I've been using this setup since 2018 and it works well.
You do need to check a couple boxes in your Onxy CUT-Server settings. Setup the cut folder under port settings and Automatically cut new files needs to be checked.