Hahahahahaha

[WildWestDesigns]

Given the "AI" rant thread, I found this article hilarious. Article

So for those that just have the plain Jane copilot that is shoved in your Windows experience, it's just there for entertainment value and should not be used as a serious tool. So in the immortal words of "The Spaniard": "Are you not entertained?"

 

[simon haysom]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons-

Let me know your thoughts. ta Simon

 

[Bobby H]

So for those that just have the plain Jane copilot that is shoved in your Windows experience, it's just there for entertainment value and should not be used as a serious tool.

Don't they use the disclaimer "for entertainment purposes only" on some online gambling apps? I know I've seen that blurb on TV commercials advertising those things.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons-

Let me know your thoughts. ta Simon

Just 10-20% chance of losing out to this? I would say that it's significantly greater. While people may not like it, it has been shown that the latest generation is actually dumber compared to those that came before it. Which despite "AI" not really being true "AI" (at least in my mind) can easily manipulate those that don't really have that much critical thinking skills. And kids that are going to be using this in school to do school work is just going to accelerate that. We have already been using tech far more in that area compared to what we should have been doing (reports also coming out about that as well).

While at this point (at least what us plebs have access to), I do not think "AI" is actually "AI", but that doesn't really matter given that future generations are getting dumber (on average), just based on that alone, if "AI" doesn't have any improvements at all, it will get "smarter" on that fact alone.

Don't they use the disclaimer "for entertainment purposes only" on some online gambling apps? I know I've seen that blurb on TV commercials advertising those things.

I believe you are right. About as gambling as I have done though is scratch offs and sometimes the lotto. Never did the apps, used to play the old casino games on the PC (but they stopped making those due to the true gambling apps that you are talking about). No money exchanged on those things, beyond the original purchase of the game.

 

[Bobby H]

Just 10-20% chance of losing out to this? I would say that it's significantly greater. While people may not like it, it has been shown that the latest generation is actually dumber compared to those that came before it.

I saw a headline saying Anthropic is delaying the latest version of Claude ("Mythos") due to security concerns. Apparently black hats could potentially use it for cyber attacks. The developers of these LLMs or whatever they're called now just keep pressing forward, regardless of what kind of dangers they might pose. They just have to win all the cash, even if leopards eat some people's faces.

The situation keeps making me think of Jurassic Park and the line from Ian Malcolm, "your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."

While at this point (at least what us plebs have access to), I do not think "AI" is actually "AI", but that doesn't really matter given that future generations are getting dumber (on average), just based on that alone, if "AI" doesn't have any improvements at all, it will get "smarter" on that fact alone.

I wouldn't call the products companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are hyping as being real "AI" due to the various glitches, hallucinations and other errors that are all too common. However, there is a big difference between true AI and the even more advanced thing: AGI.

I'm not sure what would be more dangerous. A machine with artificial general intelligence that actually has a sense of self awareness, consciousness, self-determination could potentially be extremely dangerous. But that's only if it chooses to act like Skynet or HAL-9000. The machine could choose to not do something malicious. An AI bot that has no self awareness could unwittingly do destructive things and not be able to stop itself since it's basically a dumb appliance.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I saw a headline saying Anthropic is delaying the latest version of Claude ("Mythos") due to security concerns. Apparently black hats could potentially use it for cyber attacks. The developers of these LLMs or whatever they're called now just keep pressing forward, regardless of what kind of dangers they might pose. They just have to win all the cash, even if leopards eat some people's faces.

I would equate what MS is doing as being far worse. Claude and the others, one has to actively seek out, install, hook up and use. Windows has "AI" in their system, through out their system and even they say it could be a security risk. Given how inter connected and online their systems are, the user can't truly shut it down/off (and I wouldn't even trust if there was such a total kill switch in the system, based on if nothing else, how they treated the close button in the Windows 10 upgrade days).

I wouldn't call the products companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are hyping as being real "AI" due to the various glitches, hallucinations and other errors that are all too common. However, there is a big difference between true AI and the even more advanced thing: AGI.

Ironically, I would argue the glitches themselves don't really qualify as if it is or isn't "AI". After we, we get "glitches" too. It's more how they learn and how they render their results. What we have now, at least what is available to more or less to the plebs isn't "AI" and as it is now, can't achieve "AGI". There would have to be some differences in how it learns and how it disseminates the results. That may change, but not how it is now. Now, there could be something in some secret military installation somewhere, but not what we have now, readily accessible to us.

I'm not sure what would be more dangerous. A machine with artificial general intelligence that actually has a sense of self awareness, consciousness, self-determination could potentially be extremely dangerous. But that's only if it chooses to act like Skynet or HAL-9000. The machine could choose to not do something malicious. An AI bot that has no self awareness could unwittingly do destructive things and not be able to stop itself since it's basically a dumb appliance.

Neither is actually good, because of our own dwindling intelligence it appears that's going on. It makes it rather moot as if these bots have their own intelligence or not.

 

[Bobby H]

Speaking of dwindling intelligence, this video seems pretty scary.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Speaking of dwindling intelligence, this video seems pretty scary.

Yep, that seems to be of a few trends coming from teachers lately.

I firmly blame tech on this and removing writing (I'm one of those that think cursive (or atleast way that it teaches kids to think of letters and words) in general (or at least mitigating how much time is spent on it) with regard to reading. And the lack of reading has also led to the lack of actual quality entertainment as well. On average that is. I can lay blame squarely on the parents as well as the teachers, who gets it worse, that does depend on the nuance of the situation.

The problem is that most people want to "go go go" on the tech and we aren't wired that way and we don't change our wiring nearly as quickly as tech evolves. Nowhere near it. As much as I do like tech and can see it's potential, I also came during a time that tech wasn't there, one had to know the analog way to get anything done and so far, just about every phase of it's evolution, I had to deal with in some capacity. A lot of these kids (and perhaps some users on here (millennial and younger)) have really only known the tech. Don't get me wrong, there were still electronics, still had game consoles (Atari, this was from the 70s and 80s, NES etc), but it was nowhere near the center of attention that it is now.

I'm more of an old school luddite. I don't mind tech, it's how it's implemented that's going to get us into trouble. Not just "AI", but even tech that has been around 30-40 yrs, but is so abstracted away from the end user now, we have kids that don't even know file trees.

 

[Bobby H]

I agree technology is causing a lot of practical skills destruction. Aside from diminishing reading/writing skills so many people have truly horrible math skills. They can't do any arithmetic by hand; they're dependent on the calculator. In the sign industry we regularly encounter customers who can't understand basic geometry concepts like aspect ratio.

As far as file trees go, I think that has been a problem ever since graphical user interfaces were incorporated into operating systems 40 years ago. The original Mac systems in the mid 1980's were specifically marketed as computers that didn't require users to use any of that stuff. The end result is countless numbers of computer users who store everything in the My Documents folder, no matter how big it swells in size. They never open Finder in a Mac or File Explorer in Windows. Those people would have been totally lost if they faced having to manage files via a command line prompt.

With so many people, children in particular, slipping into increasing levels of isolation their people skills are fading (assuming they ever had people skills in the first place).

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I agree technology is causing a lot of practical skills destruction. Aside from diminishing reading/writing skills so many people have truly horrible math skills. They can't do any arithmetic by hand; they're dependent on the calculator. In the sign industry we regularly encounter customers who can't understand basic geometry concepts like aspect ratio.

Reading measurement tape, being able to make change if the register is down for whatever reason. Cursive is the manual transmission of the writing world (I always enjoyed cursive and calligraphy, so I'm hung up on that, but that's me).

As far as file trees go, I think that has been a problem ever since graphical user interfaces were incorporated into operating systems 40 years ago. The original Mac systems in the mid 1980's were specifically marketed as computers that didn't require users to use any of that stuff. The end result is countless numbers of computer users who store everything in the My Documents folder, no matter how big it swells in size. They never open Finder in a Mac or File Explorer in Windows. Those people would have been totally lost if they faced having to manage files via a command line prompt.

I can agree with that to a point. The GUIs of the 80s and 90s though didn't totally abstract away the file system. How many on iPads or phones even realize that there is a file manager on those devices? Everything is autosave and in the cloud first, hardly local. I doubt most of the younger users wouldn't have a problem with a thin client computer with just enough software to bootstrap an Azure instance that truly runs "their" OS. I do believe that taking away learning CLI (which even on Windows and Mac in some instances still the best way to communicate with the computer, especially if dealing with hardware issues) was the beginning of the end. Even in the 9x era, still had to deal with MS-DOS. When Windows really only had NTVDM, that was the downward spiral. Don't even have that anymore though with Windows only being 64 bit now.

 

[Bobby H]

The first computers I used in middle school and high school didn't have graphical user interfaces. Even throughout the rest of the 1980's going into the 1990's I had to use MS-DOS and its familiar command line on a regular basis. When I had to move files from one directory to another I felt like I was walking a tightrope.

I always think about that situation when I encounter a computer user who doesn't want to fart around with the graphical file manager built into OSX or Windows. It makes me think that person is just being lazy as hell. It's so much faster and easier to manage files in an app like File Explorer than doing so via a command line.

 

[Johnny Best]

I don’t know how many people on here can read at a 8th grade level, but reading through wildwest and Bobby H back and forth posts on AI, puts me at kindergarten reading level real quick.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The first computers I used in middle school and high school didn't have graphical user interfaces. Even throughout the rest of the 1980's going into the 1990's I had to use MS-DOS and its familiar command line on a regular basis. When I had to move files from one directory to another I felt like I was walking a tightrope.

I remember the old dir /w command. When I was in college, there was a cow genetics program that was DOS based (it was eventually ported to a GUI, but it didn't exist in GUI form when I was in college). I remember when MS had a Unix like OS.

I always think about that situation when I encounter a computer user who doesn't want to fart around with the graphical file manager built into OSX or Windows. It makes me think that person is just being lazy as hell. It's so much faster and easier to manage files in an app like File Explorer than doing so via a command line.

No, it's not. For instance, Inkscape has a CLI interface. I have a python script that runs inkscape via CLI. So it does not spin up a graphical instance, thus does not consume that same amount of resources. It exports 3 embroidery file formats per SVG file, a pdf stitch chart, zips them all together into an archive and deletes the original exported embroidery files and stitch chart. I can iterate over a single folder or thru many, can take seconds to minutes depending on how many files it's iterating through. Can you imagine trying to do that all via GUI for even 1 file? No, it is far faster and even easier compared to using the GUI (even compared to using GUI with keyboard shortcuts). Especially if doing multiple file operations. The question depends on learning to do it. Everything has a learning curve, even a GUI. Automating is far easier/efficient via the CLI compared to the GUI.

If one has a failing hard drive, trying to pull those files before it totally dies is far better in terms of stress to do it in a CLI environment compared to a GUI and all the unnecessary operations that a file manager does when trying to keep it cool while moving things over.

Most Windows programs do not have a CLI version due to how Windows is setup now (which I would argue is a regression, but that's me) as far as most programs user here would be dealing with (Adobe etc). And they are totally dependent on the GUI, that's why it feels like the CLI isn't as good of a choice. The OS has neutered it for most of the average person's workloads.

 

[Bobby H]

No, it's not. For instance, Inkscape has a CLI interface.

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about the overall GUI of the operating system -much less getting into any sort of sidebar debate tangent about CLI. I'm not spending any time on that. The point I was making was a great deal of computer users do not do squat to manage their files. That's despite the availability of the file managers in OSX and Windows that allow them to organize files visually. That is much easier to do than remembering commands and typing them accurately via a command line.

 

[Boudica]

I don’t know how many people on here can read at a 8th grade level, but reading through wildwest and Bobby H back and forth posts on AI, puts me at kindergarten reading level real quick.

I saw the word calligraphy. I used to be into calligraphy, I wasn't bad at it. I used to have an older speedball set where you have to dip the tip into an ink bottle. I also had the pens you put a cartridge in the pen. Felt pens suck because they wear down on the tips.
Out of practice now. I should pick it back up.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You're missing my point. I'm not talking about the overall GUI of the operating system -much less getting into any sort of sidebar debate tangent about CLI.

The tangent of the CLI was to show how far knowledge has fallen from the early adopters of computers to where we are at now with the modern generation that only knows the abstraction, especially the abstraction of file managers (or now cloud computing with just blank auto save without really even asking the name of the document that you are wanting to save). My mention of the GUI on the OS where it purposely hides the CLI is to show that there is a concerted effort to minimize access/usage of it.

One cannot beat the speed/efficiency of file processing at the CLI, especially when one isn't having resources diverted to simple things like indexing the file system all the way to what "AI" does to it.

That is much easier to do than remembering commands and typing them accurately via a command line.

It's called scripting. Even the GUI has it, JS, Actions, Macros, all found within Adobe and Corel programs (ironically to actually maximize one's usage of GUI programs, the ability to script is paramount, otherwise leaving a lot of efficiency on the table). Point and Click is the most inefficient method of using the computer in general (there are some programs where it is a must (drawing programs (except for the pixel type of program a la Aseprite etc, but I digress), file managers is not one of them).

I used to have an older speedball set where you have to dip the tip into an ink bottle.

Speedball here as well. Along with my Ames Guide and T-Square. Can't forget the french curves either.

I also had the pens you put a cartridge in the pen. Felt pens suck because they wear down on the tips.

Given enough friction, everything wears done. Just ask my joints.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Which despite "AI" not really being true "AI" (at least in my mind) can easily manipulate those that don't really have that much critical thinking skills. And kids that are going to be using this in school to do school work is just going to accelerate that. We have already been using tech far more in that area compared to what we should have been doing (reports also coming out about that as well).

That is really the point. As much as I like to bust your balls, you are usually correct. Did you see that France is looking at changing all Govt operating systems over to Linux?
I believe Japan took their schools back to pencil and paper a few years ago. I wish we would do that here, so much more productive and easier.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Did you see that France is looking at changing all Govt operating systems over to Linux?

There are quite a few that are switching over. Germany had starting switching over, got a lucrative deal for new Windows computers and switched back. I think that they are looking to switch yet again. The first go around though, they swapped to their own in house distro, which led to a lot of issues. If trying to move people over, use the mainstream ones, after that, can be a little braver.

Only downside is that we are getting into the muddy waters of age attestation/verification and what that could lead to (and this is happening in Linux as well). Stores/Repositories etc are getting locked down even more so, removing or making it harder to side load etc. That's a whole other tinfoil hat filled tangent.

I believe Japan took their schools back to pencil and paper a few years ago. I wish we would do that here, so much more productive and easier.

I wish we would as well. I don't think it would happen though. Verbal testing, written testing, go back to teaching traditional writing (including cursive). There is nothing wrong that once one reaches a certain level of competency, that they are able to use the more layered abstraction. But need to know what one is doing first, before going to the abstraction. Can extrapolate this into other areas as well.

 

[AB Rolan]