Help tweaking a PMS color

[jgaskin]

Hey Guys & Gals,

I've got a little color selection issue I'm hoping you folks can help out with. Here's the background info:

First off, I currently outsource all my printing to a local printer.

I'm working with a client who's very particular about color and we're currently working on a project which has their logo watermarked into the background color. The logo has been specified as PMS 188. That part is working out fine. The problem I'm having is they're wanting to go with a "slightly lighter color" for the background color. They're wanting more "red" but stay away from "orange". Up to this point we've been working out of the Solid Coated palette in Illustrator, but I'm out of options with regard to finding a suitable color to do the job.

I'm not really looking forward to converting my closest match to CMYK and tweaking manually, but is this my only option at this point? Anyone who can offer some insight is my new best friend....

Thanks so much,
Jason

 

[jbogart]

Are you trying to go with a different color or a screen or percentage of the 188? In order to keep it from feeling "orange" you may need to shift more to the cooler, bluer reds (higher numbers in the pantone book). You'll probably need to do that with the screened version as well, since screened burgundys often tend to look somewhat orangey.

 

[jgaskin]

jbogart,

Thanks for the reply. Originally, I was trying to work it out by using two different PMS colors, namely 188 and 202. The 202 had too much magenta. Then I toyed with setting both the foreground and background at 188 and using transparency (yikes!) to work out the shade for my watermark. Too much color shift with that.

What I've opted for now is still use 188 for both but cut one of the percentages down to 94%. If they don't like this one, maybe they should look into a new box of Crayolas and lil' elbow grease.

Your thoughts?....(thanks for the help, btw)

 

[Sticky Signs]

Just a thought but couldn't you make the BG the same colour and adjust the transparency to make it look lighter?

 

[boxerbay]

tips:

- dont mix pantones as it will be a nightmare for a printer to reproduce.
- dont use a transparency to lighten a color. it will end up see-thru when something else is behind it. use the tint ramp.
- bill for your time spent chasing ghosts OR send them to an online color picker website and have them play around until they find the correct color they want. If not this could go on forever.

 

[Sticky Signs]

tips:

- dont mix pantones as it will be a nightmare for a printer to reproduce.
- dont use a transparency to lighten a color. it will end up see-thru when something else is behind it. use the tint ramp.
- bill for your time spent chasing ghosts OR send them to an online color picker website and have them play around until they find the correct color they want. If not this could go on forever.

NOt to be a PITA, but my actually hits a lot of pantone colour with ease. Not all of them, but a lot.
I suggested using a transparency because it's the background of the image therefore there is nothing behind it. I'm not sure what the tint ramp is. Can you explain?

 

[jgaskin]

Sticky,
Yeah, I had tried that approach and with the particular tone I was looking for, I ended up with too much of a color shift. I had my fingers crossed though...

boxerbay,
I totally agree with the pantones. I'm fairly new to working exclusively with pantones and I'd rather keep them pure and predictable. The transparency too. Thankfully, we're working with purely solid colors on this one with nothing to show thru. Still, the color shift was too extreme, so that approach is out. The tint ramp seems to be the way to go. The client is looking for a slight difference between the two colors and a simple 6% reduction on the tint ramp seems to do the trick. Excellent advice. Thanks.

 

[boxerbay]

NOt to be a PITA, but my actually hits a lot of pantone colour with ease. Not all of them, but a lot.
I suggested using a transparency because it's the background of the image therefore there is nothing behind it. I'm not sure what the tint ramp is. Can you explain?

if you have a pantone red box and make it 50% transparent - it becomes a see thru pink on a white background. if the same red with 50% transparency is on a blue background it becomes purple.

if you make the same red lets say 185c and set the tint ramp - slider up top - to 50% tint it will be the same pink but it will not be affected by any color that is behind it.

I come from the print world so when building files such as logos we need to be careful to select colors that will be produced on large format, offset full color or spot colors, and digital. The file/ logo has to be universal for all production.

Case in point - that logo if made using a cmyk color will not be able to be produced using a one color machine like an AB DICK 98x. If you want envelopes made and you have used a CMYK or mixed color to create a logo - the client will only have the choice of going full color for printing envelopes and that has a higher price point vs using a one color solid pantone. not to mention mixing pantones with transparencies and you create a nightmare of a color to re-produce accurately across all formats. Some pantones cannot be created using a CMYK mix. Just something we think about when building files and selecting colors so down the road everything continues to move smoothly thru the pipe.

 

[jgaskin]

boxerbay,

thanks for pointing out some of the finer points of printing. i, myself, often get caught up in a purely CMYK world and rarely take a glimpse, let alone get to know, other printing processes. thanks for sharing.