Suggestions Help us lean in the right direction in terms of solvent/UV/Latex

[speedbird1229]

Hi!

We've been running an online sticker shop for almost a year now and we've been fortunate to grow rather quick in our country. I'd like to start a discussion on purchasing our next larger printer and I'm asking this simply to avoid making a costly mistake in our future production workflow.

Currently we run a small Roland BN2-20 solvent printer with White capability. We cut mostly on Summa S One. Our main product line is bulk PVC stickers and labels in sizes up to 200x200 mm (8x8 inch).

What I want from the machine:

1) Quicker printing speeds
2) Low maintenance cost
3) Low ink cost
4) Precise color reproduction
5) As little raster effect as possible
6) ECO friendly is a benefit for sure, especially in terms of our working environment
7) White printing with good strong base (current Roland ink is somewhat milky)
8) Easy material loading (we switch materials often)
9) As little material waste as possible (we do a lot of small jobs)

I also haven't decided on the MAX width but perhaps it makes sense to go for the widest just to be future proofed?

I really appreciate your assistance!

 

[balstestrat]

Solvent is out if you want the best white.

 

[hybriddesign]

Might be good to know if you laminate or not and the width of your Summa. The Epson solvents are real nice and super low maintenance but they are 63”.

 

[Ronny Axelsson]

I think number 8 and 9 will disqualify the latex printers, if loading speed and material waste is important to you.

 

[signheremd]

Mimaki UCJV300 or 330 (second one more expensive, but higher resolution and speeds) would be good choices. UV inks so ready to laminate or cut as soon as done printing. White color is excellent. RIP software is excellent. Only negative is the inks have an expiration date - so depending volume the actual ink cost could be higher than expected. if your volume is low, may also want to opt for only CMYK and not Lm and Lc, or could add Varnish (a clear coat which allows spot printing glossy areas for cool effects). Could also consider the Cannon UV printers - though they are built to run a 54"x50yd roll in 3 hours or less - so higher volume yet than the Mimaki.

 

[jharler]

We use Epson s80600s for most of our stickers that need white ink and even on clear, the white ink coverage is adequate. They are very low maintenance (cleaning once a month, maintenance pack every 6-12 months depending on use). We regularly print entire rolls in one go without issue. When not printing white, a 150 foot roll of 54" material takes about 4-5 hours to print. Add in white ink and it's about 6 times that long. It's a 10 color printer, so colors are phenomenal. The material loading and takeup are easy to use and reliable. I highly recommend this printer. Epson recently replaced this line with a newer model which adds a green channel and is supposed to be good, but I have no personal experience with them. When it's time for us to get more eco-solvent, I will go with those.

We also have a Mimaki UCJV330-160. I do not like this printer. It prints great once you get the color profiles dialed in and the UV ink allows for effects with the clear ink, but this printer is a pain to work with. Definitely not beginner friendly or as forgiving as the Epson. It requires daily cleanings (technically you don't have to do this... but they recommend it). I've never had any luck printing more than 20 feet on it before the vinyl skews to the point where the print is nearly off the vinyl (we leave 1.5 inch margins). It smells worse than the eco-solvent. I do not like the dimensionality of the ink on stickers when they're laminated, so we don't use ours for laminated stickers. Overall, the print quality is good, but everything else about this printer is difficult. I wouldn't recommend it.

I have no experience with Latex, so I'll refrain from giving any input other than to say when I was researching my first big printer purchase, Latex was eliminated as an option pretty quickly.

 

[dypinc]

I think number 8 and 9 will disqualify the latex printers, if loading speed and material waste is important to you.

I would not say this with the 700/800 series printers. Changing rolls is pretty quick, can't see how it could be longer than any other printer. Material waste is not an issue if you tape a small leader with a weight on it to the media. I just use a 19 x 13 digital press sheet. Maybe about 4" at most. And some media that is more ridge can be started from the beginning whiteout the back and forth warm up procedure. Biggest speed issue is the warm up procedure, running the media back and forth with media that need to be held down with taped on leader weighted or attach to take up roll.

 

[balstestrat]

I would not say this with the 700/800 series printers. Changing rolls is pretty quick, can't see how it could be longer than any other printer. Material waste is not an issue if you tape a small leader with a weight on it to the media. I just use a 19 x 13 digital press sheet. Maybe about 4" at most. And some media that is more ridge can be started from the beginning whiteout the back and forth warm up procedure. Biggest speed issue is the warm up procedure, running the media back and forth with media that need to be held down with taped on leader weighted or attach to take up roll.

Even this is improved some amount with the 630/730/830. You can print most SAV from pinches now.

I don't think Ronny has ever used the new ones.

 

[RighteousDude]

Came to say the same thing as balstestrat about the white point of solvent... I swear by solvent, it's the tried and true and I think it checks every box you're asking to check... except that white point one. I did manage to get a pretty awesome white from an older Roland eco-solvent, but it meant double striking the white, which wasn't super economical due to the price of white ink and how long it takes to print double-strike white with a 3rd pass of the actual design on top of it. I'm also primarily a wrap shop, I'm doing vehicle graphics and outdoor signs for 99% of what we churn out... so we're laminating everything, but you're mentioning you are primarily stickers, so I don't know if I would feel like lamination is such a necessity for what you're doing, maybe offer it as an upsell... you'd get a better finished product if you're thinking of not laminating, if you use UV or Latex. With that said I always recommend lamination.

We currently use an Epson S80600 and I disagree with jharler's opinion that the white is adequate, I've felt let down by the white ink on this printer since day one... it's BARELY acceptable in my opinion, very milky, and the printer doesn't allow for you to print it in a separate pass from the graphic... on the Roland white ink printers, you can set it so it prints the white ink and then lets it dry, rewinds and then prints the image on top of it... or vice versa if you're doing a reverse install and need a white back on it and this option to sorta run image and white base separately creates an opportunity for a lot of clever solutions to ink density etc. This printer is awesome, I love the color spectrum it can hit, I love the speed... but it's lack of dithering tech and the subpar white point (albeit, for a single pass white, it is impressive but that's just the thing... it doesn't allow you to double pass just the white it to really crank up that opacity so even though it's impressive for a single pass white, that's what it is, just a single pass white solvent ink and as such is only so good) are a frustrating couple of details considering the price point of roughly 20k. --- when we started this shop we spent only 17k and got a Mutoh printer, Mutoh plotter, Royal Sovereign laminator and all 3 pieces of equipment are still running strong after 5 years... haven't even had to change the print head on that Mutoh, which is nuts. My experience with solvent printers is that they are incredibly economical to maintain compared to UV and latex.

 

[Ronny Axelsson]

I don't think Ronny has ever used the new ones.

True. My experience is with the "old" HP 365, and compared to the Mimaki eco-solvent printer I used before, the difference in loading time and material waste is significant.
It feels like the 365 checks every single parameter, one by one, when loading and preparing to print, which can be frustrating if you change materials often.
And following all the loading recommendations often leads to a lot of wasted material.
Using a small leader with a weight, as “dypinc” suggests, helps reduce waste but also takes extra time.

Overall, it's still a great printer, but these drawbacks are worth noting, and I'm glad to hear they've improved this in newer models.

 

[Tim Miller]

I love printing on the Canon Colorados, but there's a fair amount of media waste. They do well at color, ink cost, longevity, and easy loading, but you lose about 2' on the end of every roll, and you have to use a fair amount of material to calibrate each vinyl.