Help With Sp540-v Magenta/yellow

[Sponge11790]

Hi everyone.
New guy here, but hoping the collective experience of fellow users can help me out. If you want to get straight to the current problems, just skip the next paragraph. It may give some context though. The short version of the backstory goes like this:

I drove 3.5 hours to buy a used SP540-V. It worked great when he ran a demo on it. Test Print was perfect. He showed me how to clean it, load vinyl, maintain it, etc. Here's where I may have started to go wrong... I transported it back in a 12' cargo van. No special transport prep, just powered it down, loaded it in the van and strapped it down. It was a bit of a bumpy ride back if that is noteworthy. Got it home, unloaded from the van and took it off the stand to get it in the room that contained the only square footage necessary to place it. To get it in there, I knew it had to be stood on end. So, I removed the drain bottle and wadded a paper towel and taped it over that area. I can only imagine the cringes on some of your faces at this moment. Now, without going into detail on the following hours invested in renting a rug doctor and trying to get a crime-scene worth of ink stains out of the carpet, let me just say that "green" ink ran everywhere when we stood the machine on end. We stood it on the control panel end if that makes any difference. I proceeded to cleanup everything as best I could with what I was comfortable with. Fast forward.

Plugged in, powered on, did a test print. Got all 4 colors. Black had some misfired lines, blue perfect, red missing several, yellow about half actual yellow and half red. Okay, google search. Back to the machine and did a normal head cleaning. Same result minus the red mixed with yellow in the yellow section. Did the medium cleaning. Same result. Did the powerful clean, same result. Maintenance clean followed by medium clean. Same black/blue, but no red now either. So here I am 2 days later and about 8 hours of online research. Did the syringe on the red/yellow head. Red pulled through, no yellow though and the line is empty, so the cartridge may be out. Dummy me. No idea on the red though. The cap tops appear to be operating as they should. Blue and black look great. Not perfect, but darn close. Still nothing on red, and my new cartridges haven't arrived yet. I did the swap-tronics with the black and red printhead ribbon cables. Black and blue still both worked fine, and still no red, so that's not it. Based on all this information, my questions are these:
Is it possible the damper(s) and/or printhead got damaged during my road trip or the moving/tipping of the machine?
Where the heck did all that ink come from when I tipped it up?!? Appears to still be puddled around the red/yellow dampers if that helps.
How can I determine if the dampers are actually bad?
How can I determine if the printhead is actually bad?
What should my next move be?
Guys, I know I'm pretty ignorant on all of this, but I'm doing my best to learn it as quickly as possible. Any and all help is certainly appreciated. Also, I'm not scared to try anything (as should be obvious since I dumped several thousand into a piece of equipment that I know nearly nothing about).
Thanks in advance for assistance.

 

[Solventinkjet]

When you tipped the machine on its side, you put a lot more pressure on the ink system than it was designed for. This makes the ink flow through the heads and ink comes out either through the waste lines or out the sides of the cap tops. The ink is just dark greenish because it's all of the colors mixed together. The good news is that it sounds like you didn't do any electrical damage.

So now what you have is ink lines that are partially filled. First, make sure there is ink left in the cartridges. You can just take them out and rock them back and forth. If you feel movement in the cartridge, there is ink inside. If there is no ink, you will need to get some before you can continue.

Now that you have inks installed, hook the syringe up to the bottom of each damper and pull. You should feel pressure pulling back on the syringe and if you let it go, it should partially snap back. You can also take the long top cover off to see the ink lines. When you pull, the ink should move immediately. You should be able to watch it move through the line and down into the damper. As soon as the damper has some ink in it, remove the syringe. The damper should expand slightly and the ink should stay in the line. If the ink starts to recede back to the cartridge, there is bad seal between the damper and the ink line and/or the damper is bad. Do this to all 4 dampers and then run a cleaning cycle. The cleaning cycle should fill the heads in one try. If it doesn't, you could have bad cap tops and/or they are dirty or the bottom of the head is dirty and the cap can't seal.

Did you use the head lock when moving the machine? It's a blue piece of metal that screws into the platen and blocks the head from moving. If not, there is a possibility that the head became damaged by sliding across the cap station during moving. If you know for sure that the ink is flowing properly and the head still doesn't fire properly, it could be physically damaged.

 

[Sponge11790]

Wow. Thanks so much! That is all very helpful information, and I feel like I am gaining a better understanding of the machine now. I stripped all the covers so I could see the ink lines. They were all full except the yellow, which had a few sections with ink, but mostly air. I checked the cartridges, and they all still have ink in them. The yellow is pretty low, but it does have some in it. I did not remove the dampers for black or blue since they are both working fine. I did remove the damper for the yellow though, put the syringe to it and tested it. It had trouble pulling ink, but that also may be contributed by the fact that I could hear it sucking air. It seems that the damper is cracked where the ink line and fitting screw on. I'm not 100% sure, but I also feel like the seal of the transparent side is also leaking. I was as gentle as I could be, but I wonder if I broke something when removing the damper. There is a slot in the side right where it connects down onto the manifold. After removing the manifold, there was a split plastic ring stuck in the bottom of the damper, but I was able to get it right out. The o-ring was in there as well, and intact. That being said, I'm hesitant to try removing the damper for the magenta line. If I do, I may replace the magenta and yellow dampers as well as the manifold for that head. I know the syringe pulled magenta through the damper and printhead earlier with no difficulties, and the magenta damper is full if that carries any weight.

EDIT*** So based on pictures, I believe the plastic piece that I found in the bottom of the damper is actually part of the damper mechanism itself. I'm learning more everyday. Experience comes just AFTER you really need it. Keeping positive here though.

I was completely unaware of any kind of head lock when preparing it for transport, so no, I did not use it.
So, this is where I am at now. I'm ordering a couple dampers, but only planning to replace the yellow one. Also considering just going ahead and replacing cap tops and wipers as well just to get everything clean and fresh. Full set of ink cartridges are on the way, but I'd like to not waste half of them running power cleans in attempt to get things going again. Question time.

1) Is there any information on how to change the dampers so that I can ensure that I don't further damage any other components or the dampers themselves?
2) How do I know at this point in time whether or not I broke the manifold? The plastic nipple is still standing and appears to be okay, but the damper doesn't snap or click into place by any stretch of the imagination. EDIT*** As stated above, I believe my manifold is okay, I just broke the clip portion of the damper connection.
3) I saw something online about Print Head Doctor. I'm assuming that will only recover a head for being dried up with ink and not for a case in which the print head may have been physically damaged?
4) On that same note, If the print head is physically damaged, is that something I will be able to see? I examined it in "maintenance cleaning" mode, and it doesn't appear to have even the slightest scratches, dents, marks, etc on it. I realize that may not mean anything, so that's why I am asking.

If pictures are requested for any of the things which I have described, I can provide.
Thanks again!

 

[printhog]

I've moved lots of inkjets, from little ones to the giant 5 meter machines. During transit air can back flow into the ink train. I always plan to fully drain and flush with head flush at the receiving end. Likely that started your issue.
You said you hear air sucking when doing a syringe pull.. so there's a leak. If you were in screwing the damper connection you likely cracked the manifold. Unless you have tiny printer builder fingers.

To get to a troubleshooting point you need to get to full ink lines.. either with flush, (cheaper), or ink. Flush will clear any boogers from your main feed lines. It's your choice.

On rebuilds I replace all the ink train parts that are common disposables, dampers, wipers, sponges, cap tops, drain pumps, drain lines, and inks. All new.

You're wanting to make money with this purchase, might as well be fit to go.

There are online source s for the service manual. Get one before you do electronic damage.

its only a freaking sign!

 

[printhog]

Oh and a tip.. proper terminology... k for black, magenta not red, cyan not blue.. unless your running a dye based inkset. On that note.. if you flush you have the opportunity to switch ink brands.. most suppliers have ink swap deals to get your business.. shop them.

its only a freaking sign!

 

[Sponge11790]

Thanks Printhog. I did manage to find the service manual, so we are good there. It has everything but damper replacement. I'm guessing that's because they typically get replaced with the printhead? I do have small fingers and a delicate touch, so fingers crossed, I'm going to hope and pray against a manifold and printhead. I'm waiting on my dampers to arrive. Ink and flushing cartridge came today. Once the dampers show up, I will replace the yellow one and see how everything does at that point. If yellow starts to work, then I will investigate the magenta damper and lines. If not, then I feel pretty confident that it's the printhead. the drain lines and pump all work great, so I don't see any issues there. I suppose it would be best to just go ahead and replace the wipers, cap tops, and sponges.

 

[printhog]

From your initial moving. description I doubt there's any head damage. Except for those annoying manifold ports. They are the bane of my existence.
Dampers have filters in them and they're usually an annual service item. But transit can dislodge ink globs from the lines and quickly kill the filters. That's why I always replace all of them at rebuilds. Not worth the hassle to skip that step.
Get all your plumbing in order. Then see if you have a head failure. Usually they're just ink starved after moving. If they drew any air back into the system you could have tiny bubbles in the head for days. Need to run solid color panels to flush that through. One each of CMYK at least 4 ft. Long.

its only a freaking sign!

 

[Sponge11790]

So I should or should not plan to replace the manifold? It looks pretty involved, and I didn't want to risk drying out the head if I take too long, but if it's not too much involved past the damper replacement, I'd certainly be willing to give it a try. Also, looking at some pictures, I can't tell, but it looks as if the plastic manifold is where the rank number is. I assume I'd want to keep that information handy for future reference.

The air bubbles in the heads situation makes sense. I'd like to get a halfway decent test print before I bother trying to communicate with the PC and send some of those solid panels to it.

 

[printhog]

The manifold is NOT a repair that Roland even addresses, you're basically disassembling an item that wasn't intended to be disassembled. For starts You need to remove the head to do that. It's a major repair requiring recalibration and not a newbie thing. For a new owner I'd not try it. Better off to buy a pre fab head with carrier plate and rank from Roland follow the service manual for head swap and get running.

Folks do swap manifold successfully but it is a messy a part swap and requires a service manual to get back to printing and the willingness that you may ruin the part. And yeah you can dry out the head, induce dirt, or more likely scratch the jet plate membrane doing it. There are follow up consequences to removing the head from these machines, the least of which is the 3 hour hassle to recalibrate the x and y positions and then color profiles for media.

As I said earlier, get your plumbing (aka inkways) all clear and air tight. If the manifold is broken, get a new head and the service manual and replace it. A few pump down procedures from the service mode will get the lines clear and charge the head.
You can draw ink thru by syringe but excess force on a head can damage the internal workings.
Once you've got good flow physically, then the machine can be put into print to see if there's any other defects.

Remember these heads are made to deliver billions of droplets of ink the size of a red blood cell going to a particular point in space at wicked speeds. Getting too hands on will just break that tech.



its only a freaking sign!

 

[Sponge11790]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone. For what it is worth, I ended up replacing the yellow damper as it was leaking. I also replaced the magenta/yellow print head along with its cap. It is printing all 4 colors now! Spent the time to re-calibrate everything and it is looking pretty good. I printed a few small things, but the colors seem "weak." I made up some 100% C ,M, Y, and K blocks. None of them seem to be filling out to quite 100% though. They look like about 80% opacity. It also seems a bit patchy. A test print shows perfect magenta, yellow, and cyan. Black is shooting about 96% accurate. Got a few nozzles not quite shooting straight on that one. I'll save the troubleshooting on color matching for a new thread unless someone else chimes in with a quick solution. I know it's a deep subject with a ton of variables, but I'm trying to match some CMYK color codes for a project that I'm working on. Been having another guy run them for me on his VS540-i and they look great, but the $18K was out of the question for me. My colors just don't seem to "fill out" on the vinyl, not even getting into the actual shade matching. I can use Kentucky windage on that part. I do need to figure out why the partial opacity and patchiness though...