How to avoid wrinkles with drop-out text and transfer tape?

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

So I've run into this issue a few times now doing drop-out logos in frosted vinyl, where the transfer tape will apply with some wavy-ness on the table in the dropped-out areas, which seems to create slack in the drop-outs when you go to apply it and turns into wrinkles. And if you try to pull it back, the transfer tape separates from the vinyl which just makes things worse.

It's also been pretty humid, which seems to soften the transfer tape and make it more wavy. Any tips for this kind of job?

 

[DL Signs]

What type are you using now?

Pre-mask has a harder time adhering to matte or textured materials like frosted. You need a high tack, and if you're using paper mask, they're also more problematic in humid conditions, you can wet them to make them easier to remove, so it's a no brainer that when it's very humid you can have issues like paper releasing from adhesive, stretching...

Clear masks like Rtape clear films are good. They aren't as affected by humidity, they're thicker and stiffer than paper, don't stretch and bubble as easily over open areas, can be used for wet or dry applications... We stock a couple different versions of these for a company that applies intricate pre-cut decals over powder coated pieces, with a lot of blank space. We use the AT65 for those, I think it's their AT75.1 that's made for hard to mask surfaces. I've found they work best when applied aggressively, after application I go over with a squeegee to make sure there are no bubbles or loose spots before going out and laying them. Get some samples from one of your vendors and try em'.

 

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

What type are you using now?

Pre-mask has a harder time adhering to matte or textured materials like frosted. You need a high tack, and if you're using paper mask, they're also more problematic in humid conditions, you can wet them to make them easier to remove, so it's a no brainer that when it's very humid you can have issues like paper releasing from adhesive, stretching...

Clear masks like Rtape clear films are good. They aren't as affected by humidity, they're thicker and stiffer than paper, don't stretch and bubble as easily over open areas, can be used for wet or dry applications... We stock a couple different versions of these for a company that applies intricate pre-cut decals over powder coated pieces, with a lot of blank space. We use the AT65 for those, I think it's their AT75.1 that's made for hard to mask surfaces. I've found they work best when applied aggressively, after application I go over with a squeegee to make sure there are no bubbles or loose spots before going out and laying them. Get some samples from one of your vendors and try em'.

We use Rtape 4075RLA. I just remembered, when I pre-masked one of the pieces, the table roller pushed air out of the cut area and created a bubble under the vinyl. I try to get the material flat before masking but some still have waves no matter how much you tape them to the table.

We do have some AT65 though, I will try that. Great idea given the humidity, and it should handle more similar to frost during installation too. Thank you!

 

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

Well, somehow it ended up even more wavy. I think it may have been the orientation. I applied it horizontally because I wanted to make sure it spanned the full width, since I was getting wrinkles at the sides where the transfer tape ended last time.

The piece had to hang over the edges to do it that way, but I tried to tape it flat. Ugh.

 

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

Well, going in the other direction didn't work any better. I don't understand. I taped it as flat as humanly possible to the table. Is this just something that needs to be done in one full width piece of transfer tape?



It looked nice and flat before I trimmed the overhanging transfer tape (below). But here you can see it pushed air out of the drop-out and created a bubble again:

 

[unclebun]

It seems like the problem is using a roller table to apply application tape instead of doing it by hand. Granted you can't buy a Weber tape tool any more but I think people wouldn't be having all these problems if they could buy that $200 tool instead of using a $25,000 roller table.

It's also possible to put the application tape down with a roll laminator. I've never had problems like this using one of those.

 

[DL Signs]

Agree with unclebun, gotta be the roller table not playing well with them. I'm seeing more issues with those, especially with mask, it seems to take a lot of messing around to get good results in a few scenarios. I don't use one, sometimes I'll use a roll laminator if I have a ton of stuff, most of the time I just lay mask manually, which is what you may end up having to do with these.

 

[bob]

If the lack of vinyl is giving you problems then don't weed it until after you apply it.

 

[incrediblesignco]

here is my 2 cents
1. don't overrlap transfer tape, use one piece wide enough to cover it. you'll get bubbles at the seams and each pass has it's own back tension
2. if using a roller table be sure that you don't have any back tension on the ap tape.
3. doing it manually you won'te get any curl
4. but whne doing it manually be sure to not get any winkles or bubbles

 

[Ron at Forest Litho]

At one time I tried just taking the paper off at one end and then using a long fat dowel as a rolling pin to roll it on under pressure.... Did that work? Nope!

 

[unclebun]

At one time I tried just taking the paper off at one end and then using a long fat dowel as a rolling pin to roll it on under pressure.... Did that work? Nope!

If you're going to steamroll application tape you use another roll of application to push it along.

 

[hybriddesign]

someone else mentioned this too but of you’re the one installing this just don’t weed anything in advance. Install it and then pull out the areas you don’t want

 

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

Well I managed to install it flat despite the warped mask. Definitely will not weed it in the future, that's a great idea.

The table roller does seem to have mixed results. Any vinyl that doesn't like to lay flat, like window perf in my experience, can be a nightmare to laminate with it.

How would you mask manually with a large piece like this? Steamroll method or weber style? We have a bar at the end of the table that can be used like a weber. I don't do it that way often though, it seems like it would be hard to pin the starting point perfectly flat across.

 

[unclebun]

We have a 4' Weber tape tool, so we would use that. It takes 2 people to pull 4' application tape. Make sure you have it pulled straight, and go at least a foot past the graphics and stick the tape to the table. make sure it's all straight. Then use a wide squeegee (wallpaper tool) to smooth the tape down. It will curl at the edges so you have to have the two people walk along and pick up the edges and straighten them as you go.

 

[JBurton]

So we've done this numerous times without weeding first, and it's great on colored vinyl, but I can only imagine the headache and stress from trying to weed frosted vinyl that is already installed, in an office environment.

 

[ParagonSigns&Graphics]

We have a 4' Weber tape tool, so we would use that. It takes 2 people to pull 4' application tape. Make sure you have it pulled straight, and go at least a foot past the graphics and stick the tape to the table. make sure it's all straight. Then use a wide squeegee (wallpaper tool) to smooth the tape down. It will curl at the edges so you have to have the two people walk along and pick up the edges and straighten them as you go.

The graphic will curl at the edges, or the tape?

Do you tape the graphic flat to the table first, or just keep pulling it taut as you go?

 

[unclebun]

The graphic will curl at the edges, or the tape?

Do you tape the graphic flat to the table first, or just keep pulling it taut as you go?

The application tape will tend to curl downwards at the edges. The graphics will usually lie flat.