HP 365 Latex Printer Power Backup and Surge Protection

[darrellcarpenay]

I'm wondering if anyone has any advice on what device I can use as a power backup and voltage regulator / surge protector for my HP365.
Power info:

The HP Latex 365 is a powerful printer, and under a full load, you can expect the power consumption to spike. Thus, HP provides a unique power supply that uses two power cord wires of 200-240 V, with each cord maxing out at 16 A.

Power and consumption specs:

• Consumption: 4.6 kW when printing, 85 W when in ready mode, and less than 2.5 W when in sleep mode
• Required input voltage: 200-240 V over two wires (auto-ranging and PE) and 50/60 Hz (±3 Hz)

Two power cords are necessary for operation at 16 A maximum per power cord.

 

[balstestrat]

Are you really ready to spend that kind of money? You need a big unit to power that. And for how long under full load... 1 minute?

Maybe two of these, one for each cord, you are good to go for ~10 minutes.

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SU5000RT4UHV-Rackmount-Outlets/dp/B003GQKQ2C/

Oh they have 10kVA model as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SU10KRT3UHV-10000VA-Rackmount/dp/B0000BVV2B/

 

[SightLine]

Yep going to be quite pricey if you want to have any sort of actual runtime over more than a minute or two while printing unless you can find a good used one which do tend to go for far less than retail.
I have a massive rackmount Eaton 240v (main unit plus 3 extended battery modules) one for our Mimaki but it only pulls about 1.5kw at most when printing. The UPS can run our Mimaki for about 45 minutes. Retail on the UPS we have was over 10k..... I got it from our locate state surplus property office brand new and unused still in the box for like $800 (but it had sat for a couple of years so batteries we pretty low but still lasted about a year before I had to replace all 68 of them). No way I would have spent 10k on it though.

 

[Shred_signs]

I remember the day my boss asked me to find back-ups for a 365.

 

[JBurton]

Is nobody making a gas generator/UPS hybrid setup where the downtime is 0 in the event of a power loss?

 

[BigNate]

look at power walls - the solar add on that can store during low rates and feed power back for power outages and or higher rates.... a system that will power a house with AC, freezers, stoves, etc will easily keep a printer running. And the power is WAY less expensive than a normal UPS (and if you have net metering, then it can passively purchase electricity during cheap times and sell it back to the grid during expensive times - this can entirely pay for a unit in a couple of years.... not to mention how few ruined prints it will take to pay for itself.)

 

[BigNate]

Is nobody making a gas generator/UPS hybrid setup where the downtime is 0 in the event of a power loss?

what about all the new battery systems for solar arrays? they do not need the solar array to work, and they are basically a huge UPS system... and can make you money buying on the cheap and selling back on the high.... I have neighbors with enough to keep a house in AC for a week (so they say.... but they have a LOT of batteries)

 

[darrellcarpenay]

Thank you for all this info, guys. I really appreciate it. The backup systems are definitely too pricey, but what about something that protects well against surges and low voltages? Where I'm located the power fluctuates sometimes and I'm trying to preserve the HP parts as best as I can without breaking the bank.

 

[BigNate]

Thank you for all this info, guys. I really appreciate it. The backup systems are definitely too pricey, but what about something that protects well against surges and low voltages? Where I'm located the power fluctuates sometimes and I'm trying to preserve the HP parts as best as I can without breaking the bank.

loosely my understanding is that you can protect from a surge fairly inexpensively, but be careful as the cheap "surge protectors" that are basically 6' extension cords with a circuit breaker do not really protect from voltage spikes....

Something with a full isolation circuit (just not batteries for backup) will protect from voltage spikes - NOTHING CHEAP will protect from low voltage/power drops. you should be able to call an electrician or even your local power company to see what systems they recommend for your situation - but large transformers and batteries are not cheap ---- this is why almost no one protects from full power outages, few protect from real surges, and most use the cheap "surge protector" and protect against most shorts/fires (the circuit breaker in the 'surge protector')....

 

[JBurton]

Something like a system for home generator power maintenance could work, but I'd never heard of these until searching for a capacitor bank, so take that with a grain of salt. I think most whole home generator setups have fancy wiring at the genny.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MG82PCK

 

[BigNate]

... grain of salt or not, a home battery, like the Tesla Wall, is basically a 2-way AC-DC converter with a battery on the DC side... this is EXACTLY the same thing that a UPS is - just the scale is different. Wiring an UPS is generally plug-n-play as the total energies in the system are fairly low (remember the energy density in a fully charged LiPo battery is GREATER than that of TNT....)... But when we get enough batteries to seriously fry someone - maybe someone like an power company employee who is working on a "dead" line that happens to be connected to your battery... the fancy wiring is usually associated with the generation system, like a solar array.

Simple, Tesla Wall only installs have no "fancy wiring", they are just another appliance attached to a circuit attached to the breaker panel - now you are actually feeding power back to the grid (to re-coup expense, or ???) so there must also be an isolator circuit to sever your connection from the grid during a blackout when the battery pack is feeding power to your panel (keeps it from killing the guys trying to fix the grid....)

 

[balstestrat]

This is just theoretical but for powerwall one would also need multiple units, at least 2 and I think that's starting well over $20k.
And it's not as quick as online UPS which has zero delay. With powerwall the printer might still shut down when the switch between grid and battery happens.

this is EXACTLY the same thing that a UPS is - just the scale is different.

And yeah, like I said above, powerwall is not the same as online UPS.

 

[BigNate]

This is just theoretical but for powerwall one would also need multiple units, at least 2 and I think that's starting well over $20k.
And it's not as quick as online UPS which has zero delay. With powerwall the printer might still shut down when the switch between grid and battery happens.


And yeah, like I said above, powerwall is not the same as online UPS.

the engineers in the group will understand. any specific parameter of a custom install will be modified to meet the demands of the customer... a rapid onset powerwall system - like is installed as emergency backup at some hospitals etc, could be used to keep a printer running uninterrupted. My original point is that this type of energy storage/switching device has been invented already - it just seems to be unrealistic when you pit the cost of backup against the actual risk/cost of new equipment - there is a reason these systems are installed in life-threatening places such as the hospital.

 

[JBurton]

(remember the energy density in a fully charged LiPo battery is GREATER than that of TNT....)

And diesel is an order of magnitude greater than either.

a rapid onset powerwall system - like is installed as emergency backup at some hospitals etc

AFAIK, they're all diesel generators. The cost in a 'back up' system vs capturing and storing energy are peas and carrots. On one hand you need a metric ton of energy available at the drop of a hat. On the other you need to capture a small stream of power and supplement the incoming power at high demand times, and backfeed power when generation is high, and power the whole house in emergency situations, but this is not their primary function or selling point at all.

 

[BigNate]

And diesel is an order of magnitude greater than either.

AFAIK, they're all diesel generators. The cost in a 'back up' system vs capturing and storing energy are peas and carrots. On one hand you need a metric ton of energy available at the drop of a hat. On the other you need to capture a small stream of power and supplement the incoming power at high demand times, and backfeed power when generation is high, and power the whole house in emergency situations, but this is not their primary function or selling point at all.

Diesel does not come with an oxidizer or with a detonator.... Not all BIG backups systems are diesel - though most are and almost all older ones are. New electric cell battery systems (use nat gas for hydrogen source) are becoming common. However all systems I have personally seen have a huge battery of cells with the sole purpose of supplying instant electricity back to the system while the long-term generators power up.

Giving the relatively tiny need for power to keep a printer running, a powerwall will work well, if it does not switch on fast enough (though the published specs seem to say it will switch fast enough) just add a small ups that can run for literally a fraction of a second while the powerwall switches on - the Tesla powerwall is rated at 13.5 kwh - If we take the high power-usage from the OP in post #1 - 4.6kw lets round up to 5kw - then a single powerwall should be able to keep the printer running at full maximum power for 2.5 hours... quite reasonable for a BIG UPS...... and only about $10k... and with net metering it can generate income.... you can also find 35kw backup generators which claim to be fast enough for electronics in the $6k range - but these will operate at a total loss.

 

[JBurton]

You forgot to add the cost of solar panels in that 10k figure.
The diesel operates at a loss, sure, but it will work in 10 years time as long as the fuel has been cycled. You can also pick up a can of diesel relatively easily during a natural disaster, where as you natural gas line may experience interruptions.
We can go back and forth all day, but for my money, and looking at only a possibility of needing this, I'd opt for the cheaper one that has a longer lifespan. If ya wanna be the cool kid on the block with all the newest gadgetry, a powerwall will work well if you can afford it, just don't forget the solar panels.

 

[BigNate]

You forgot to add the cost of solar panels in that 10k figure.
The diesel operates at a loss, sure, but it will work in 10 years time as long as the fuel has been cycled. You can also pick up a can of diesel relatively easily during a natural disaster, where as you natural gas line may experience interruptions.
We can go back and forth all day, but for my money, and looking at only a possibility of needing this, I'd opt for the cheaper one that has a longer lifespan. If ya wanna be the cool kid on the block with all the newest gadgetry, a powerwall will work well if you can afford it, just don't forget the solar panels.

You do NOT need solar panels for a powerwall - they can generate moneys buying grid power at off-peak times and selling it back during peak times - no actual generation of electricity needed.

Agreed, you invest your money where YOU are comfortable investing it, and I will invest mine where I am comfortable - but the technology to do power backup exists, it just may not be recognizable to the lay-person unless he understands the tech behind the system.... in modern times, supplying a 60hz AC at 110v or 220v at a constant 5kw is not a hard task - though it can be very pricey.

 

[darrellcarpenay]

I have two of these on my HP365, but not sure if it's enough protection.

ESP E524ZNT 20 Amp 208/230 Volt Digital Qc Surge Protector AC Power Line Filter​

 

[BigNate]

... the diesel generator will only work in 10 years if it had regular maintenance over the 10 year span - the powerwall will still be working in 10 years too, but no maintenance needed.

 

[BigNate]

I have two of these on my HP365, but not sure if it's enough protection.

ESP E524ZNT 20 Amp 208/230 Volt Digital Qc Surge Protector AC Power Line Filter​

Those should work well to reduce spikes int he line voltage - a big surge like a lightening strike nearby may well still jump to your equipment, and it will not be able to input much power as the capacitors have to fit in the box too... but this device gives exponentially greater protection than the $10 'surge protector' we love to hate.

(I too have a few of these running on our mail meter and related equipment.)