HP 8000 banding issues printing ARLON DPF 8000

[ddubia]

Printing on an HP 8000. I purchased a roll of ARLON DPF 8000 for a couple of jobs that require it's specific features as it's designed for surfaces which are hard to stick to. I was told by the ARLON rep that there are machine specific profiles on their site, (which there are). But he also said that if I couldn't find a profile for the 8000 to match to my printer to instead use my profile for 3M 180, which I have.

There were no profiles available for my printer using this media so, taking his advice, I'm using the 3M180 profile.

The results I'm getting is the banding shown in the attachments. (You might notice that on the last attachment it started out ok and then quickly degraded into the banding issue).

I use this same profile for printing on 180, and on Oracal medias for which I have no profiles, and have no banding issues.

I did notice the other day when checking my ink levels that the "Y", "C" and "K" were all reading "LOW". The lowest I've ever seen them read before "LOW" was 7%. So figuring they were pretty low I tried swapping out those colors with new cartridges. It made no difference.

I do not have the knowledge, software or tools to make my own profiles. Since most all of our work is signs, banners and vehicle lettering I've been getting by without them. Not many of our customers are running around with spectrometers in their pockets and everyone's been pleased so far.

My printer has a feature that allows setting the print heads high or low. High being for banner material and low for vinyl. What I have tried so far:

• Started printing at I am printing at 6 color, 8 pass, 720 dpi
• Changed to 6 color, 6 pass, 540 dpi, at both the high and low print head positions.
• Changed to 6 color, 4 pass at 350 dpi. at both height positions.
• Shut off all three heaters. (This DPF 8000 material is super sticky with a thick adhesive. I had problems with adhesive leaking past the edge of the media and depositing on the platen and the printer body just past it. This would cause the media to stick and not feed properly at times. I don't know if it's a bad roll of media. I do know the 5yd sample roll did not have this issue and printed perfectly). I understand that heating the media sets the ink into the media but assume that with this job being interior that it can get by.

I've never dealt with severe banding issues before. Well, a few times, but the viewing distance took care of that and we've had no complaints.

I know that feed travel is sometimes the culpret but am not sure what to do adjustment-wise in this case.

Does anyone have a suggestion on what I can do to at least eliminate most of this banding so it's not so noticeable? The blue lettering is going high on an interior block wall so the viewing distance will take care of the inconsistancies.

But the green letters are going in a room with a painted drywall surface and people will be able to get much closer to it. The customer for the green lettering was very particular on their PMS color and I was able to give them a color proof on this same material of which they approved. So I know they're going to be sticking their noses right against it once it's applied.

 

[gregwallace]

Can you post a nozzle test print?

 

[ddubia]

I'll try that. Don't know if I'll be able to show the yellow though.

I'll go do it now.

 

[ddubia]

Want to get real busy? Just have a problem you're trying to troubleshoot. The phone won't quit ringing, people walk in and the boss has a cut vinyl job he forgot about and needs 30 pieces cut and weeded asap.

Anyway...

Pictures of the nozzle print was difficult with the camera I have available to me. I had to throw them into photoshop and alter them horribly you to be able to see what's going on.

 

[gregwallace]

Does your machine have a 16 pass count option?

 

[ProWraps]

i could be wrong, but that doesnt look like a media issue. more of a printer issue. specifically a prefeed issue.

does that printer have the omas sensor on it? if so is it possibly turned off? 8000 is a VERY heavy roll and the PF is way different than the 180c. could be that the PF is set in the 180c profile and may be causing the problem.

 

[ddubia]

i could be wrong, but that doesnt look like a media issue. more of a printer issue. specifically a prefeed issue.

does that printer have the omas sensor on it? if so is it possibly turned off? 8000 is a VERY heavy roll and the PF is way different than the 180c. could be that the PF is set in the 180c profile and may be causing the problem.

It does look like a feed issue. I've thought about but haven't yet tried to cut a test piece off the roll and see if it feeds better.

This printer does not have the omas sensor.

You are right, this 8000 is a very heavy roll. In fact, it seems to jerk the whole printer with each advance. I'm going to try, as I said above, a smaller test sheet. I didn't have this problem when printing on the 5 yd sample roll last week. If the test sheet prints good, which I'm now guessing will likely be the case, I'll cut off a sheet large enough to print this job. I've never printed a loose sheet before. We'll see how it goes.

btw, the 180 PF worked great on that sample roll. At least to my picky client's satisfaction for his PMS color. And the print, although only 1/2 of full size, printed very solid and smooth. My client was impressed. Now this! hahaha

 

[ddubia]

Does your machine have a 16 pass count option?

I hate when someone asks for advice and their reply is "That won't work". So before I tell you that it won't work I went and did a text print at 16 passes. Lo and behold it print not only acceptable but a very good color match to the sample I'd made previously. The whole file is now printing at 16 pass and I can rest relieved that it will be done shortly.

Thank you.

I'm still going to print a test on a loose sheet. I don't want to print 16 pass every time I use this stuff.

 

[ddubia]

I keep telling myself... I love a challenge.

Head crash with 3.5 letters to go on an 146" print. The edges of this media are sticky. It may have caused the problem.

I've been watching it very closely throughout the print and it's been running well and not skewing. But something's happened and now this.

So, considering each individual letter is contour cut, weeded, masked and applied, do I print the whole thing over hoping it doesn't happen again? Or do I print just the end I need to make it complete and then put the two pieces together accurately enough to contour cut?

I choose the latter. As I said, I love a challenge.

You can see the boxes I've drawn around the lines of lettering which are to aid in weeding. I think that since I've printed those lines, (I usually don't), using them and my superior line-stuff-up skills I can put this thing together and make it work. Otherwise, why in the world would I even try?

If this works I'll brag about it for a month. If not, I'll reprint it sitting in a chair right beside it keeping a closer eye on this sticky crap.

Thanks everyone for your concern and help. I'll post the results later when I either succeed today or get drunk today and print it tomorrow.

 

[gregwallace]

Good to hear its working.

 

[ProWraps]

16 pass is probably working because it doesnt have to advance as much with each pass. this would be a quick/dirty fix to the prefeed issue. just a slow one unfortunately.

 

[bloobird0]

same behavior for me with DPF8000.

 

[ddubia]

16 pass is probably working because it doesnt have to advance as much with each pass. this would be a quick/dirty fix to the prefeed issue. just a slow one unfortunately.

I like your "quick/dirty" fix comment as it is that. Next time I use this material I'm going to cut a sheet of it to size and load that. It will eliminate the feed problem due to the weight of the roll. I think you're right about that causing the issue.

The 180 PF works fine for my type of clients who are more of a "I want it forest green" kind as opposed to the nerds one encounters in offset printing or the representatives of large companies like McDonalds, et al who are anal about their Pantone colors.

 

[ddubia]

same behavior for me with DPF8000.

I spent nearly an hour cleaning adhesive off my printer after printing 10ft of this material. I've got pictures of that "glue" all over my machine. I have come to the conclusion that the adhesive is what caused my head strike.

 

[bloobird0]

Head strike already happened to me, but this was because the roll was loaded during few hours before I start printing and the vinyl had time to stick to the printer, never had this problem in the middle of a print as far as I remember (I use the take up unit to reroll the vinyl this may help not sticking to the printer).

I only need few seconds to clean glue from the printer with "White Spirit" (that's the name here in France, I don't know how you call this). What kind of cleaning fluid do you use that it takes you so much time to clean your printer?

 

[MikeD]

Adhesive ooze is very heavy with that product. Flexcon has an "RTS" series that has the same application capabilities as the 8000, but none of the problems.

 

[ProWraps]

i probably go through about 100-150 rolls of the 8000 a year. we have a big client that uses it exclusively for massive product labeling runs.

i have to pull the first set of rollers out on the right side of my l25500's due to the exposed adhesive. it will stick to the roller, lift up upon advance and cause a head strike.

my graphtec that we do the contour cutting on, about once a week the platen must be scrapped down to get all the adhesive off, and the wheels have to be removed and soaked in rapid remover.

8000 is hell on machines.

 

[ddubia]

lift up upon advance and cause a head strike.

Is there anything you've found that guards against this. I've got several upcoming jobs that will be using this material.

Maybe bearing grease on all the adhesive contact points. :Big Laugh

 

[ProWraps]

can you remove the first set of rollers? im not familiar with your printer so im not sure of the roller configuration.

 

[ddubia]

After reading your post yesterday I decided to look into that today. I think I remember a feature that allows specific rollers, any of them, to be lifted and not make contact.

I'll post the results of my findings. It may help someone else with an HP.