HP latex ink usage

[Lea Marc]

Hi guys,

Not sure if anyone else has experienced this but we print on the HP 360 from Flexi 12 and when we want to review a job to see how much ink was used the only way (I believe) we can find it is through the HP Web Access utility under 'Accounting'.

I've noticed a few irregularities with this and haven't really got a solid answer from HP. I had a job which I tiled and printed then printed the full version yet according to the log the tiled version used 5 times the ink than the full version. Also when I printed a double-sided banner (same image), side A used twice the amount of ink as side B. The other thing is when you add up the total ink used for a bunch of jobs it works out to be a lot of ink yet a seldom change the ink cartridge...has anyone else come across this issue and what do you use for determining your ink usage after printing a job?

Thanks for any help, Steve

 

[jayhawksigns]

Can't help with the ink usage across similar jobs, but I will confirm that its ink usage numbers are far from accurate. According to the web server, I've used over 800ml of ink from my yellow tank.

 

[ikarasu]

The website actually says they are estimates only. How it determines its estimates... I don't know.

I just did a bunch of similar decals, just black text. Two full rolls... Around the same size, same wording. Some jobs came to a couple bucks per 2000 decals, some came to $20 per 2000 decals. It should have used near the same ink, as its about the same coverage.

You generally can't trust it for accurate numbers. Most printers only estimate. Probably based on SQFT of ink used. It'd be nice if it were accurate though. Let me know what HP says, if they ever get back to you!

 

[dypinc]

Surely these aren't the same numbers that the heads report. If so it would be quite disturbing. Anyone check if these two numbers are the same?

 

[Lea Marc]

HP did get back to me and admitted that this is a gestimate but that's really the best they can offer. The tech did try to move the request up the chain to somehow incorporate it into future software releases but that won't be anytime soon. I'm in the middle of a job right now so can't check the heads and their count but will do that for the next job. It seems strange how no one (at HP) had thought of this before - it's kind of a big deal in accurately working out your costs to make a job and helping to estimate new jobs in the future..

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Can't help with the ink usage across similar jobs, but I will confirm that its ink usage numbers are far from accurate. According to the web server, I've used over 800ml of ink from my yellow tank.

HP puts 5-10% more ink in the cartridge, sometimes it can suck more out than other times.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Just to answer your question, we have run 335 rolls of the same pattern through 3 different machines and the ink numbers are all within 5% of each other. I think it has a lot to do with when it calculates ink pulling from the cartridge vs actually firing.

 

[visualeyez]

I only use the 110 but I use the heck out of it. I use the Flexi RIP and it's not in front of me, but in one of the tabs there is a printer information button. This shows the Print log with the Ink Usage. When I print a lot of dark full color canvas I use very close to 2ml per sq.ft. When I print large text only banners I use only .5ml per sq.ft. When I tell the printer that the media is uncoated, it uses 2X the OP.

 

[Joe House]

I'm not from that end of the business, so forgive me, but I'm curious what percentage of the sale price of a typical job do your ink costs typically run? And I realize that the point of this thread is that you really don't know due to the widely varying levels being reported by the printer. So for example, how much would the run of 2000 stickers sell for? Your ink costs are either $0.01 or $0.001 per sticker (more or less). Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Ink for us depending on the job ranges from 5% to 40% of the total job. The 335 rolls ink was 40% of our cost vs our typical printing it hovers around 10%. So Ink cost and reporting can be ultra critical.

 

[ikarasu]

I'm not from that end of the business, so forgive me, but I'm curious what percentage of the sale price of a typical job do your ink costs typically run? And I realize that the point of this thread is that you really don't know due to the widely varying levels being reported by the printer. So for example, how much would the run of 2000 stickers sell for? Your ink costs are either $0.01 or $0.001 per sticker (more or less). Just curious. Thanks.

It all depends. There were 28,000 decals total. Job paid $16,000. Decals varried in size, and ink usage.. But we'll use the 2" x 1" ones since the ink usage varried. We charged 50 cents per 2" x 1" decal. On the black text ones, it cost like a penny per sticker in ink usage. 2000 decals was an estimate of $2 to print, ink wise. On the reverse red... We had to go 12 pass to get the red they wanted. Hp Job estimate was 20 some dollars per 2000.

When your making close to $1000, of course $2 or $20 doesn't matter price was.

But it was a package deal. We ended up using around 3 rolls of 180 /8518, so $3500 in material... $300 in ink, then it took us about 4 days to do all the printing, and perf cutting on our cutter. So in my case, ink didn't matter much...

But if your printing a 4 x 8 sign, with very little ink usage it could cost you a couple dollars. If it's a full sized print... It could cost you $50-100. So ink can be a huge chunk of cost, which is why knowing how much your machine is using is nice. We generally charge xx ink cost per sqft. But that's just a guestimate... Knowing exact prices could cause us to raise prices, or enable us to lower them.

 

[ikarasu]

On another note, I was looking at the accounting help page and saw this -

"The data provided regarding the total ink consumption for each plot are approximate. HP does not warrant the accuracy of such data; the average error in the total ink consumption for each plot can be up to ±15% in about 95% of cases. The error percentage can be higher in the remaining 5% of cases. This is based on HP internal tests run in ambient conditions."

+/- 15% isn't bad...it's the higher on 5% of jobs that worries me. I guess it's still good for estimating, it's easy to tell when it's out of whack for certain jobs.

 

[Joe House]

Thanks for the thorough explanation ikarasu.

 

[PrintTrader]

There is a pretty accurate Ink Usage calculator inside Flexi. It breaks it down by color and gives you all kinds of reports and statistics.

 

[koz]

There is a pretty accurate Ink Usage calculator inside Flexi. It breaks it down by color and gives you all kinds of reports and statistics.

 

[ikarasu]

There is a pretty accurate Ink Usage calculator inside Flexi. It breaks it down by color and gives you all kinds of reports and statistics.

Interesting, didn't know that. Do you know off the top of your head if its just in the "premium" version? I've been running flexi for like...3 hours worth of print time, so I'm not used to it yet, more used to onyx. Sadly I only have the HP Basic edition... Can't decide if I want to go cloud, pay for the upgrade to premium, or wait until I can justify it and get Onyx, which seems like an overkill for home use, as much as I'd like it.

 

[Lea Marc]

I received a useful post from HP which contradicts what I was told by the tech on the phone but does make sense. I did also look at the ink levels from the printer info tab in Flexi before and after the job and they were the same as what the HP said it used for end. So I think it's case close for us for now other trying to bring down ink usage generally through profiles and curves etc.

Steve

 

[Lea Marc]

Interesting, didn't know that. Do you know off the top of your head if its just in the "premium" version? I've been running flexi for like...3 hours worth of print time, so I'm not used to it yet, more used to onyx. Sadly I only have the HP Basic edition... Can't decide if I want to go cloud, pay for the upgrade to premium, or wait until I can justify it and get Onyx, which seems like an overkill for home use, as much as I'd like it.

If you right-click on the job in Flexi there is an option for ink estimation/estimate but I don't think this works with Flexi and the HP. I called Flexi once before who said you can't do it this way, only with the HP web utility can you see ink after the job. It works with our Roland however with the ink estimation and would sure help ahead of running and job and ordering supplies.

 

[ikarasu]

I received a useful post from HP which contradicts what I was told by the tech on the phone but does make sense. I did also look at the ink levels from the printer info tab in Flexi before and after the job and they were the same as what the HP said it used for end. So I think it's case close for us for now other trying to bring down ink usage generally through profiles and curves etc.

Steve

I don't know if I'd Believe him. Goto your accounting web tab, click help and read the bottom. If it were exact, hp wouldn't say within 15% accurate, with warnings everywhere that they're just estimates.

I'm on. My very first ink set.. and heads. I'll probably be through the back in by next week. I think I'll compare job history, to ink through the print head, vs when it says I'm out of ink... See if they all align. I'm sure there's not exact 400 ml per ink cartridges for the 110, but how much ink is firing through the nozzle and job accounting comparison should be interesting!

 

[Joe House]

I'm on. My very first ink set.. and heads. I'll probably be through the back in by next week. I think I'll compare job history, to ink through the print head, vs when it says I'm out of ink... See if they all align. I'm sure there's not exact 400 ml per ink cartridges for the 110, but how much ink is firing through the nozzle and job accounting comparison should be interesting!

Thay very first ink set wad used to fill the ink lines, so it won't be a very good indicator of ink usage. Also, don't neglect the ink consumed during cleanings.

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