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I want to buy a small engraver....

Stacey K

I like making signs
Looking to buy an engraver to make leather patches for hats. I'll also be looking at buying an embroidery machine next year. Right now I send it all out to my friend but I KNOW I could sell a lot more if I could do it in house.

In casually looking online I see 10w, 20w, 40w and 45w - what's that all about?

Maybe I would do tumblers also...so leather patches and tumblers?
 

StarSign

New Member
The optimal wattage depends on the application, as higher power allows for greater material thickness and speed but risks damaging materials if not controlled properly
 
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ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
You also want to make sure you're buying the right type of laser. Most of the cheaper ones are diode... They can't cut through acrylic or anything clear, or certain colors, I'm not sure how they deal with leather patches.

The wattage is how strong the laser is, stronger it is the faster you can do engraving, and the thicker the material you can cut.

If you're looking for a small one, I would look at the omtech polar. I think it's between two and $3,000? But it can do tumblers, patches, cut acrylics, it is a great machine for its price point.

I know the diode ones are probably tempting due to how cheap they are... But you're going to be very limited with what you can do
 
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Signstein

New Member
We have a Wecreat Vision (20W diode) at home and really like it. We got the kit with the rotary jig and fume extractor. It can engrave round items like tumblers, but I haven't used it to it's full capability yet.
It's been great for cutting jigs, prototypes, router guides, etc. I've even made some silly basswood signs for around the house.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
We've run laser engravers for over 20 years. what you should look for is a CO2 laser, for the items you listed a 50 watt machine will work fine. there are 2 types of CO2 lasers, glass tube & RF tube. 99% of the chinese machines are glass tube, the tubes are considered consumable, and the engraving quality is noticeably lower than an RF tube, these would be the OMTech, Boss Laser, Thunder Laser etc. machines, engraving speed will also be much much slower because the glass tube is not able to fire the laser beam as quickly as an RF tube.

RF Tubes are the best choice if you want to run the machine all day every day, they last for years,and can engrave faster and at a much higher quality than glass tubes. These are your more expensive machines (Epilog, Trotec, Universal) We had a Trotec that was 14 years old and still on it's original tube, glass tubes will need to be replaced about once a year.

If you are just dipping your feet in, I would reccomend a glass tube laser from a reputable company like Thunder Laser or Boss laser, they have American support, and the machines are around 10% of the cost of an american made machine. when you outgrow the machine it will hopefully have paid for itself multiple times over.

If you were looking for a machine to mostly cut and not engrave, i would say 100% get a glass tube chinese machine, they are big and powerful and cheap!
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
We've run laser engravers for over 20 years. what you should look for is a CO2 laser, for the items you listed a 50 watt machine will work fine. there are 2 types of CO2 lasers, glass tube & RF tube. 99% of the chinese machines are glass tube, the tubes are considered consumable, and the engraving quality is noticeably lower than an RF tube, these would be the OMTech, Boss Laser, Thunder Laser etc. machines, engraving speed will also be much much slower because the glass tube is not able to fire the laser beam as quickly as an RF tube.

RF Tubes are the best choice if you want to run the machine all day every day, they last for years,and can engrave faster and at a much higher quality than glass tubes. These are your more expensive machines (Epilog, Trotec, Universal) We had a Trotec that was 14 years old and still on it's original tube, glass tubes will need to be replaced about once a year.

If you are just dipping your feet in, I would reccomend a glass tube laser from a reputable company like Thunder Laser or Boss laser, they have American support, and the machines are around 10% of the cost of an american made machine. when you outgrow the machine it will hopefully have paid for itself multiple times over.

If you were looking for a machine to mostly cut and not engrave, i would say 100% get a glass tube chinese machine, they are big and powerful and cheap!
I upgraded my omtech to faster stepper motors, it can do 1000 ms now without missing a step, - which looks like still half the speed of a trotec.

Have you tried the glass tubes? I engrave really tiny stuff / Lamacoids all the time and they come out perfect - for the engraving quality are you talking lasering photos and stuff?

I want a trotec, but the price for the bed size is crazy. My only regret in my laser right now is I didn't get 48" so that I can fit a 4x8 sheet through with pass through .. I've been planning on upgrading to an Epilog once my omtech dies, but it just keeps running and running and won't break down for me to justify it.. I don't use it more than 4-5 hours a week, but I'm on year 2 or 3 and the tube still has 95% life on it.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I upgraded my omtech to faster stepper motors, it can do 1000 ms now without missing a step, - which looks like still half the speed of a trotec.

Have you tried the glass tubes? I engrave really tiny stuff / Lamacoids all the time and they come out perfect - for the engraving quality are you talking lasering photos and stuff?

I want a trotec, but the price for the bed size is crazy. My only regret in my laser right now is I didn't get 48" so that I can fit a 4x8 sheet through with pass through .. I've been planning on upgrading to an Epilog once my omtech dies, but it just keeps running and running and won't break down for me to justify it.. I don't use it more than 4-5 hours a week, but I'm on year 2 or 3 and the tube still has 95% life on it.
with the glass tubes, eventually you will hit a limit for how fast the tube can fire, you can upgrade the motors all you want, and the machine can move at 3000 ms, but the tube can't physically fire fast enough. When you run your OMTech at that speed, are you actually able to engrave lamacoid material with sellable results? Our Epilog and Trotec machines will engrave lamicoid beautifully at 90% speed, which is so fast the laser gantry is a blur and your eye can't actually focus on it, it will engrave a 24"x24" sheet of standard lamicoids in about 15 minutes, other shops i've spoken to with chinese machines would take around 45 minutes to engrave the same sheet.

Yes our trotec and epilog machines were expensive, but they both run 4-8 hours a day, 5 days a week and so far *knock on wood* have not given us any issues. I would love a large 200 watt chinese machine with a 4'x4' bed for cutting acrylic, but i don't have the space.
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
with the glass tubes, eventually you will hit a limit for how fast the tube can fire, you can upgrade the motors all you want, and the machine can move at 3000 ms, but the tube can't physically fire fast enough. When you run your OMTech at that speed, are you actually able to engrave lamacoid material with sellable results? Our Epilog and Trotec machines will engrave lamicoid beautifully at 90% speed, which is so fast the laser gantry is a blur and your eye can't actually focus on it, it will engrave a 24"x24" sheet of standard lamicoids in about 15 minutes, other shops i've spoken to with chinese machines would take around 45 minutes to engrave the same sheet.

Yes our trotec and epilog machines were expensive, but they both run 4-8 hours a day, 5 days a week and so far *knock on wood* have not given us any issues. I would love a large 200 watt chinese machine with a 4'x4' bed for cutting acrylic, but i don't have the space.
I can engrave at 1000 MS with the results being perfect on lamacoids, same as before at 200 MS. Crisp edges, and consistant depth. The stepper motors I have are capable of higher - But I find the belt slips if I go higher... It'll engrave it crisp 90% of the time at 12-1300, but sometimes it'll skip a step and the text will shift. That may be because Of my belt though... it came with slow steppers, and I upgraded to closed loop - I havent had time / cared enough to find just the right consistency of tightness to make it work perfect... I'd say thats one of the drawbacks of the omtechs... Theyre great if you're willing to tinker and do upgrades... Where as the trotec just works.

I bought the Omtech as a "Entry level" machine so I could learn on it / abuse it, then swap to a higher end Trotec once I was sure I wasn't going to destroy it. But sadly even though I use it multiple hours a week, it hasnt died on me yet.... and I abuse it, I never clean the mirrors..... never changed or refilled the water/antifreeze (Another benefit of RF lasers), I dont think I've cleaned the bed once.

A 24 x 24 sheet generally takes me an hour if it's 3"x12" lamacoids - 1" x 3" ones a lot more. It's definitely way slower, which is why I think it's a good starter machine... I'd say 90% of what I do is cut coro and acrylic though, If I were more focused on engraving I'd likely want a trotec... but for me bigger bed size is more important than Faster speed... it's all about the convenience, I'd never buy a laser thats under 48" wide with a pass through! Omtech makes some 50" wide lasers, and they have a pass through - So you can put a 4x8 sheet in and just pass it throughand cut a full 4x8 sheet.

The cheaper thunder you linked is a 12" x 20" Working area - and only does 1000 MS engraving. even for people who want smaller footprints, I don't think I'd go under 24x24 since thats what most materials get cut down into. Their pro 32 with a 32 x 20 bed size is 15K usd... So getting up there in price!

Personally if it were me, and I was going to cut patches, maybe get started into lamacoids / acrylics... I'd go with an omtech polar if space was an issue... But those still feel like hobby hobby machines, so Omtech pronto for a shop that has space - $6000 USD for a 100 watt machine that can engrave at 1000 MS. 28" x 20" Working bed...can cut acrylics up to 1", so you can at least load 24x24 sheets, or 24x48 sheets with the pass through.

I havent found anything the trotec can do that the Omtech can't, same quality of cut, same quality of engraving... Maybe if you get into really intricate designs RF makes a difference, but even my .5" x 2" Lamacoids I make it looks great... I've done a lot of tiny text metal plaques as well, the beam on glass tubes is still needle size, so I can't see how RF tubes engrave at better quality.... Google says they do though, so I'm guessing it must be photos / super thin lined stuff or something else. but for patches / lamacoids, I'd say quality wise they're equal.
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
Almost every laser can use lightburn, which is considered the "gold standard" in software. So you're not stuck with some shitty Chinese software. I'm sure the trotec software is just as good, if not better.... But it's probably like rips, everyone will have their own preference on which they like better.

Most of the Chinese ones do lack the camera though... Which is nicer for print and cuts. They can still do print and cuts, but you're aligning to a crosshair instead of it being auto.

You can add a camera for the odd shaped stuff so you can overlay your engravings / cut over the piece of material, but I'd say that feature is hit or miss on the Chinese engravers as you're using a cheap camera with fisheye ... Trotec at least has a nice built in accurate camera.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
I can engrave at 1000 MS with the results being perfect on lamacoids, same as before at 200 MS. Crisp edges, and consistant depth. The stepper motors I have are capable of higher - But I find the belt slips if I go higher... It'll engrave it crisp 90% of the time at 12-1300, but sometimes it'll skip a step and the text will shift. That may be because Of my belt though... it came with slow steppers, and I upgraded to closed loop - I havent had time / cared enough to find just the right consistency of tightness to make it work perfect... I'd say thats one of the drawbacks of the omtechs... Theyre great if you're willing to tinker and do upgrades... Where as the trotec just works.

I bought the Omtech as a "Entry level" machine so I could learn on it / abuse it, then swap to a higher end Trotec once I was sure I wasn't going to destroy it. But sadly even though I use it multiple hours a week, it hasnt died on me yet.... and I abuse it, I never clean the mirrors..... never changed or refilled the water/antifreeze (Another benefit of RF lasers), I dont think I've cleaned the bed once.

A 24 x 24 sheet generally takes me an hour if it's 3"x12" lamacoids - 1" x 3" ones a lot more. It's definitely way slower, which is why I think it's a good starter machine... I'd say 90% of what I do is cut coro and acrylic though, If I were more focused on engraving I'd likely want a trotec... but for me bigger bed size is more important than Faster speed... it's all about the convenience, I'd never buy a laser thats under 48" wide with a pass through! Omtech makes some 50" wide lasers, and they have a pass through - So you can put a 4x8 sheet in and just pass it throughand cut a full 4x8 sheet.

The cheaper thunder you linked is a 12" x 20" Working area - and only does 1000 MS engraving. even for people who want smaller footprints, I don't think I'd go under 24x24 since thats what most materials get cut down into. Their pro 32 with a 32 x 20 bed size is 15K usd... So getting up there in price!

Personally if it were me, and I was going to cut patches, maybe get started into lamacoids / acrylics... I'd go with an omtech polar if space was an issue... But those still feel like hobby hobby machines, so Omtech pronto for a shop that has space - $6000 USD for a 100 watt machine that can engrave at 1000 MS. 28" x 20" Working bed...can cut acrylics up to 1", so you can at least load 24x24 sheets, or 24x48 sheets with the pass through.

I havent found anything the trotec can do that the Omtech can't, same quality of cut, same quality of engraving... Maybe if you get into really intricate designs RF makes a difference, but even my .5" x 2" Lamacoids I make it looks great... I've done a lot of tiny text metal plaques as well, the beam on glass tubes is still needle size, so I can't see how RF tubes engrave at better quality.... Google says they do though, so I'm guessing it must be photos / super thin lined stuff or something else. but for patches / lamacoids, I'd say quality wise they're equal.
Hey White Haus care to weigh in on engraving quality differences between a trotec vs. Glass tube laser?
 

ikarasu

Premium Subscriber
Some call it 2 ply.... Some trolase, some call it rowmark, It's very popular in new buildings, because it's engraved it doesn't fade and lasts forever, so electrical companies / utility companies use it.... It's used a lot as name plates, etc.

I pay $100 a sheet and probably sell it engraved for $1000, it's very high margin. We sell 3" x 12" nameplates for $40 each.... A company that's been doing them for years just bought 100 of them at $30 each.. it's so easy to do too, you just throw it in, but a button and it comes out nicely engraved / clean, I usually throw some premask overtop then send it out.

So if you're buying a laser, make sure you get one that can do Lamacoids.... Lamacoids paid for my laser in the first month I had it.

That being said we did have a few customers always buying it, we just outsourced it and made almost no Proffitt... So paying off the laser in the first month was easy. We recently reached out to all our customers letting them know we can do Lamacoids, and had a quick turn around now vs the 3 weeks when we outsourced it.... And our lamacoid business doubled. It's a huge market that not many people are in! Getting smaller with all the home laser users... But it's still not too over saturated yet.
 

Dale D

New Member
I own 2 diode lasers, (10w, & 40w- where I started) a 100w Omtech 40 inch pass through, and a 200w Mopa Fiber Laser. I cant knock the Chinese models as Omtech have locations here in the states. 4 months after purchasing my Omtech, the glass tube went bad, (arching) and they replaced it free, fast and without question.
Diode are cheap and if it goes bad, toss it and get another. Co2 are nice but even excluding the tube, you have mirrors to adjust, and keep clean, which diode, and fiber have no mirrors. My Fiber doesnt have moving parts, however the downside is it limits the bed size to around 8 inches square.

DO HOMEWORK, and figure your materials you willcut/engrave, and what you might cut/engrave in the future. Then that will point you in the direction of what machine works best for you.
Leather isnt my thing, but a few pros I talk to say, Co2 is gonna work best to cut, but Fiber is better and more precise for engraving on most materials.

Once you take all that in, you will spend time and materials to dial in your machine the way you want.
 
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