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Need Help INVOICES and the State of CA.

signspe

signspe

Premium Subscriber
I am a licensed C45 in CA. I recently did an electrical sign job for a graphic designer who is now demanding that she invoice the client for the design, fabrication and installaton. She's says that she will re-reimburse me for the fabrication and the installation. I told her that California State Law requires me to invoice the client for the work I did. Am I correct?
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
You are correct, she can not contract the job... only the holder of the license can. I'm thinking she wants to up-charge your work. Did you have the actual client sign your contract or did the designer?
 
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shoresigns

New Member
VanderJ said:
Who's paying you for the job? That's who you invoice.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that in California it's illegal for anyone who is not a licensed contractor to subcontract a job, because they would then be acting as a general contractor, which they are not. So the graphic designer cannot subcontract the work to OP, and OP must invoice the client directly. I'm not from California though – did I interpret that correctly?

It's common for graphic designers to act as broker for large print jobs, so she probably thought she could do the same for a sign.
 
Rick

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
shoresigns said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that in California it's illegal for anyone who is not a licensed contractor to subcontract a job, because they would then be acting as a general contractor, which they are not. So the graphic designer cannot subcontract the work to OP, and OP must invoice the client directly. I'm not from California though – did I interpret that correctly?

It's common for graphic designers to act as broker for large print jobs, so she probably thought she could do the same for a sign.
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You are correct... I am also assuming that the designer thinks they can broker the sign like we do with printing. Brokering any work in California requiring a contractors license is a no-no.

I'm a sign designer only - I do not up-charge the client on any work done by a licensed contractor, I charge the client directly to manage the job.
 
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OADesign

New Member
This is a touchy situation. We know what the California Law "says", but how it often done is an entirely different situation. Ask any Sign franchise owner. Then ask the exact same question. But the say, "Now tell me the truth." immediately after the question. Check the look on their face...

Signspe, you are right in your thinking. But I have to ask, if this was a concern, why didn't you set the precedent at the outset of the project? During the quoting/consultation phase? Also, was a permit pulled? If so, (for your sake, I hope so) there is your bargaining chip. Your CL is on the permit. If it becomes a problem, you can contact the city and pull your license. Not sure of the exact nomenclature, but I know for certain it can be done. But going forward, that is a very important detail you need to figure out in the beginning. But again the whole broker scenario is done often. Get paid. Move on. Be specific with your client next time.

signspe said:
I am a licensed C45 in CA. I recently did an electrical sign job for a graphic designer who is now demanding that she invoice the client for the design, fabrication and installaton. She's says that she will re-reimburse me for the fabrication and the installation. I told her that California State Law requires me to invoice the client for the work I did. Am I correct?
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equippaint

Active Member
Maybe the company doesn't easily setup new vendors? I have a couple that will run stuff through us and tell us to mark it up because its easier on them. Honestly, there shouldn't be any reason you cant invoice her, she is the one that would have the problem. If it was her on here asking the question it would be different. It may cause you to lose any lien rights for non-payment though.
 
Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
equippaint said:
Maybe the company doesn't easily setup new vendors? I have a couple that will run stuff through us and tell us to mark it up because its easier on them. Honestly, there shouldn't be any reason you cant invoice her, she is the one that would have the problem. If it was her on here asking the question it would be different. It may cause you to lose any lien rights for non-payment though.
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I agree with this. Her problem if someone says anything.

Rules sound like they are the same as in Texas... but the problem is not with the electric sign company, it's the middle-man breaking the rules... up to the state if they want to enforce it or not.

Why would you care anyway? As long as you get paid that should be the main concern... Actually I'm wondering why your not already paid??
 
MrPrinter

MrPrinter

New Member
sounds like it is same mostly everywhere on this, licensed contractors need to invoice client directly..... you can pay a referral for the "hook up".
 
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shoresigns

New Member
equippaint said:
Honestly, there shouldn't be any reason you cant invoice her, she is the one that would have the problem. If it was her on here asking the question it would be different.
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Texas_Signmaker said:
I agree with this. Her problem if someone says anything.
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According to this California lawyer who specializes in the sign industry, a subcontractor (signspe) can be given jail time for illegally working for an unlicensed general contractor (the graphic designer).
 
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