Is customer trying to scam me?

[tulsagraphics]

Hi guys,

I've printed a lot of things over the years, but haven't seen this issue before. Check out the "droplet artifacts" in the pictures (all part of the same print). 18x24 yard sign, printed on IJ-35. The entire job was for 40 signs with about 30 masters, and there were a lot of busy graphics, but I'm certain that at least 95% of the prints came out perfectly (if not all of them). Anything less would have been too hard to overlook.

- The red and green text is about 1.25" tall

What I know so far:
Customer emailed me these photos today. They haven't yet paid for them, and their 2 month temporary ice rink ended about a week ago. So they used them for the entire duration of their event, snapped a few pics after they were done with them (presumably), then threw the signs away before emailing me that they weren't happy with the print quality. (seriously?)

It gets a little more hairy:
This customer hasn't complained about print quality in the past, but they have become quite rude and unprofessional as of late. So it's hard to tell if they are being genuine or not. They have a significant outstanding balance on this project (for an 800sq.ft. ice rink wrap, many large banners, etc), and it seems like they are trying to weasel their way out of paying the full amount by tying the print quality on this yard sign (or a handful of them) to the rest of the project (implying that our products are sub-par quality -- which is absolutely infuriating because we take quality very seriously). I haven't seen pics of the other signs or layouts yet (if they even have them), but I wanted to do a little research before responding to them.

Anyway... does this look like something that could happen in a failed print? Or maybe something in the environment?

For the moment I'm just trying to determine whether or not it's possible that my printer could have produced something like this. (I only have these photos to work with since the customer threw out the actual signs)

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[shoresigns]

It kind of looks like ink transferred from two printed faces being pressed together. On the other hand it also looks like a sign that's been left out in the rain and is just a little dirty.

 

[Solventinkjet]

This doesn't look like a printing artifact to me. Also, as you said, I think you would have noticed that when sending the jobs out. Not only that but if your other print jobs turned out fine, I can't see it being a printer issue. I am thinking if they were laminated maybe the lam is failing. If not laminated maybe they just got scuffed up from the skaters. If you are 100% that they left the building in good shape, it has to be a material issue, simply people scuffing the print as they walk by etc. or they are scamming you. Most people who want to get a refund for something will complain about the quality when they pick them up. Not after 2 months of use. Also, most people would have saved the example of the defect in order to prove they deserve a refund. If the quality was indeed bad, why not keep the evidence? Smells fishy to me.

 

[AKwrapguy]

It almost looks like a static build up and the dirt was attracted to it. Corex is crazy staticy. But it also looks like some sort of lam failure if they were laminated. They don't have any left to check out and verify what went wrong?

 

[tim99]

IMO - they accepted the signs, used them for there full event, therefor they have to pay. if there was a noticeable issue with the prints at the time they accepted them or while they where setting them up that would have been the time to complain about them not after the event is over. on my customers orders if there is an issue with them i still make them return the product even tho i toss it away after the issue is resolved. I dont gain anything by it but it does keep customers honest on what issues they are having.

 

[tulsagraphics]

No laminate on these signs. Just solvent-printed IJ-35.

 

[tulsagraphics]

i still make them return the product even tho i toss it away after the issue is resolved. I dont gain anything by it but it does keep customers honest on what issues they are having.

That's a good idea. Thanks!

 

[HDvinyl]

Sounds like the ice skating rink didn't make enough money this year.

 

[tulsagraphics]

This doesn't look like a printing artifact to me. Also, as you said, I think you would have noticed that when sending the jobs out. Not only that but if your other print jobs turned out fine, I can't see it being a printer issue. I am thinking if they were laminated maybe the lam is failing. If not laminated maybe they just got scuffed up from the skaters. If you are 100% that they left the building in good shape, it has to be a material issue, simply people scuffing the print as they walk by etc. or they are scamming you. Most people who want to get a refund for something will complain about the quality when they pick them up. Not after 2 months of use. Also, most people would have saved the example of the defect in order to prove they deserve a refund. If the quality was indeed bad, why not keep the evidence? Smells fishy to me.

Come to think of it -- maybe they took down the yard signs each night and stacked them together, dirt and all.

 

[2B]

I have seen similar and that looks like the signs were stored / rubbing ink against ink.
If they were unhappy it should have been addressed with the first few days.
If these issues were then from the beginning they would have seen the issues when they were being initially installed around the rink

they accepted, and waited for the event to be completed to complain.
They pay full price!

 

[Mainframe]

Since they have an outstanding balance of a large amount, I would ask exactly how many yard signs need replaced and whip them up in perfect condition and deliver them, asking for unpaid balance and explaining in the future you will need the defective signs returned, a photo will not be acceptable, he would need the signs to get out of paying for them in court. Those signs were stored stacked together in a hot car or building, guaranteed.

 

[Terry01]

Reprint one sign, photograph it and send it in an email back to them along with another copy of
of the invoice with a late payment fee on it..If they have a problem, ask for them to return all
the signs for your viewing.
Should also point out that I place a notice on the bottom of all my invoices stating the signage remains the property of the company until payment is made in full.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Something sounds fishy, a normal person would not throw away a product they were going to try to get a refund on, common sense would tell them that you might want to see the physical sign before issuing a refund.

Tell them that they have 2 options, they can return the original signs for inspection by you and you will make a decision based on their condition. Or you will offer a 5% discount on NEXT YEARS order as a good will gesture.

As for the issue itself, it looks like they had the signs stacked face to face and the ink transferred, in future use matte vinyl for this type of unlaminated work, it resists ink transfer much better.

 

[tulsagraphics]

use matte vinyl for this type of unlaminated work, it resists ink transfer much better

Nice tip! I'll definitely do that in the future. Thanks!

 

[tulsagraphics]

I place a notice on the bottom of all my invoices stating the signage remains the property of the company until payment is made in full.

I'm adding that to my website, estimates, and invoices right now.

 

[bannertime]

If you use the signs for the duration of the event, then you pay for the signs. Unless they had a verifiable loss of business due to their signs being so sub par quality, then they must pay. There's just no way around it.

 

[ams]

Put a 48 hour return policy on all signs, this will stop issues like this in the future. It looks like they were pressed together, another thing is that ice is a killer to printed signs. It doesn't look like a standard print issue. If they left your shop in good shape, then it's on them.

 

[bannertime]

I'm adding that to my website, estimates, and invoices right now.

It's legal nonsense.Something something possession is nine-tenths of the law. It'd be better to make it known that refusing to pay for an invoice, especially after taking possession of the product, is actually theft. You'd rather have the money than the signs back anyway. Otherwise once their event is done they just bring the signs back and say no thanks, keep my deposit.

 

[equippaint]

At this point I don't think any of this matters. Investigate all that you want but it sounds like they aren't going to pay, especially if you get hard nosed. Have a matter of fact conversation with them, tell them that you have a feeling that this isnt going to end well and that they dont want to pay. Explain that you will reprint them (but get paid before delivery), that they have already used them... just lay it all out and then ask them what do you want to do. Take what you can get, don't do business with them anymore and be more careful in the future with giving temporary/seasonal businesses credit terms. A lawyer wont even touch it now because they have a dispute over the invoice.

 

[Johnny Best]

All I can say is good luck getting your money from these guys. They probably will come back for more signs when they get the carnival going when it warms up.