Question Is my 360 a lemon, and should I buy another HP?

[Jordan]

We've had our latex 360 for almost 5 years now, and it's been a love hate relationship. At least twice a year it will go down for one thing or another, and that doesn't include the SMKs that have to be installed by a tech. Several plastic pieces are broken on various places on the printer, and it'll through error codes at least once a quarter. Most have work-arounds that can keep us running, but they temporary fixes are annoying, and paying $1,500 a pop for a service tech gets old.

Some examples of issues just in the past 6 months:
Line sensor failed prematurely before SMK3 - work-around was to disable OMAS on all medias
Plastic piece on bottom of carriage chipped on the edge holder (which wasn't in use) and shredded 3 maintenance cartridges before we figured out what was wrong - needed a tech visit
Loading table mount point on the user side broke, meaning the loading table won't support any weight - work-around stop using loading table
Curing module 4 will throw an error code if the temperature drops below 200* - work-around bump all paper products up above 200* and babysit the printer
Drop sensor error code that intermittently pops up.
Finally, it's begun spitting out the maintenance cartridge whenever it wakes up from idle - work-around either don't let it idle, or hard restart the printer without the MC in, then "replace" the MC before printing again.

We need to replace this machine since it's turning into sunk cost, but my question is with what? Another HP (560/570)? How do I know it won't be just like the 360? We have an Epson s80600, and I know the s60600 is a rock solid machine, but if we go bulk ink it'll be $6-7K more than a 570. Plus the latex can print on more/different media and dries immediately.

I feel stuck. On the one hand I like the positives of the latex, but dislike the quality of HPs. On the other hand I like the quality of the Epsons but dislike some of it's limitations.

 

[TomK]

Epson or Mimaki UCJV UV. Why would you invest in another HP that will give you all the same problems again in a few years?

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I'm curious... what limitations do the Epsons have?

 

[Jordan]

I'm curious... what limitations do the Epsons have?

Mainly media that’s receptive to its inks. We recently did a rush double-sided paper job for a customer, and we couldn’t get a paper product that was coated on both sides in time (without paying $400 freight). The latex print to the uncoated back side of our in stock product without quality degradation.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

Hmm, fair enough. We've printed plenty of paper but nothing double-sided.

Never had an issue with any single-sided media we've ever put through ours though.
~20 vinyl grades over several manufacturers, several solvent canvases, poster and fine-art papers and various polypropylene & banner materials.
I've printed to several "non-printable according to the manufacturer" vinyls and nothing has failed yet.

 

[ikarasu]

Most printers last around 5 years "Expected" life. Then there are the rare ones that do last longer - rolands / mimakis seem to be pretty decent lengthwise.

The HP's are more plasticky, but honestly... if you haven't paid off/got enough use out of your printer in 5 years, you're not using it enough. By the machines you have/plan on getting, I'm going to guess you are using it enough... So throw it into the budget.

You can buy a maintenance plan for a few hundred a month after your initial warranty period that will give you free maintenance/parts, have you looked into that? It's a bit more of an additional cost, but you can be sure your machine will be taken care of with no un-expected surprises.

 

[iPrintStuff]

have you looked into UV? We’ve found it has all the positives of latex and solvent without too many negatives.

as far as ink costs go, by our machines onboard calculations we run about 60p / sq m. I don’t deal with sqft often but what’s that? Roughly divide by 10? 6p/sqft. Convert that over to usd and you’re talking 0.08sqft (probably slightly more but not much).

Obviously we run a Colorado and most people tend to go with entry level printers but we have very little maintenance and/or down time and this thing churns through full rolls in just over an hour.

a mimaki UCJV might be a good option, doesn’t look the quickest though. But might be a good fit. I don’t see many people coming here needing help with them anyway, HP’s are usually a popular topic on these forums lol

 

[jfiscus]

If you're happy with your HP's output and just unhappy with the "plasticy" nature of it, then stick with getting a new one of those. When we had ours it was also regularly broke from the plastic parts snapping or wearing out and then they weren't warranted and it was down until parts/tech could come in.

I'd suggest switching or adding a materials vendor for materials if that's your only issue with the Epson. We are Epson only now (sold our 360 and Mimaki printers) and have no issues with materials, but we don't print much paper besides Sihl products and we have a good local vendor. Not much goes wrong on the Epson printers. The 60600 series is screaming fast and it is possible to laminate same day without issues. Build a downdraft out-gassing booth to speed up the process, I know it really helps our prints.

I would not recommend a UV printer like others have mentioned if you do wraps, it just doesn't stretch like latex/solvent inks do.

 

[Signature Graphix]

We've had our latex 360 for almost 5 years now, and it's been a love hate relationship. At least twice a year it will go down for one thing or another, and that doesn't include the SMKs that have to be installed by a tech. Several plastic pieces are broken on various places on the printer, and it'll through error codes at least once a quarter. Most have work-arounds that can keep us running, but they temporary fixes are annoying, and paying $1,500 a pop for a service tech gets old.

Some examples of issues just in the past 6 months:
Line sensor failed prematurely before SMK3 - work-around was to disable OMAS on all medias
Plastic piece on bottom of carriage chipped on the edge holder (which wasn't in use) and shredded 3 maintenance cartridges before we figured out what was wrong - needed a tech visit
Loading table mount point on the user side broke, meaning the loading table won't support any weight - work-around stop using loading table
Curing module 4 will throw an error code if the temperature drops below 200* - work-around bump all paper products up above 200* and babysit the printer
Drop sensor error code that intermittently pops up.
Finally, it's begun spitting out the maintenance cartridge whenever it wakes up from idle - work-around either don't let it idle, or hard restart the printer without the MC in, then "replace" the MC before printing again.

We need to replace this machine since it's turning into sunk cost, but my question is with what? Another HP (560/570)? How do I know it won't be just like the 360? We have an Epson s80600, and I know the s60600 is a rock solid machine, but if we go bulk ink it'll be $6-7K more than a 570. Plus the latex can print on more/different media and dries immediately.

I feel stuck. On the one hand I like the positives of the latex, but dislike the quality of HPs. On the other hand I like the quality of the Epsons but dislike some of it's limitations.

We operate an HP LATEX 335 and its a beast. I do preventative maint each month and weekly head alignments and calibrations. Been running strong for over 3 years now with no tech visits. It may be that you have a lemon or you may have production employees that are not treating the machine as it should.

 

[zspace]

Our 570 has been very reliable and operators like it better than the 360. If you want to stay with latex it’s worth looking out the 500’s

 

[Ahmed Samy Nagada]

I'll never buy another Latex again.

 

[TomK]

I'll never buy another Latex again.

Why?

 

[robibilic]

DRUPA is every four years. Last time HP had three new latex models. I also have 360 and I will go to DRUPA to see if HP will introduce a new model. The main issue with latex is a high temperature which stretches most materials.

 

[Reveal1]

What's next, decals of Calvin peeing on a 360?

 

[Robert Gruner]

We've had our latex 360 for almost 5 years now, and it's been a love hate relationship. At least twice a year it will go down for one thing or another, and that doesn't include the SMKs that have to be installed by a tech. Several plastic pieces are broken on various places on the printer, and it'll through error codes at least once a quarter. Most have work-arounds that can keep us running, but they temporary fixes are annoying, and paying $1,500 a pop for a service tech gets old.

Some examples of issues just in the past 6 months:
Line sensor failed prematurely before SMK3 - work-around was to disable OMAS on all medias
Plastic piece on bottom of carriage chipped on the edge holder (which wasn't in use) and shredded 3 maintenance cartridges before we figured out what was wrong - needed a tech visit
Loading table mount point on the user side broke, meaning the loading table won't support any weight - work-around stop using loading table
Curing module 4 will throw an error code if the temperature drops below 200* - work-around bump all paper products up above 200* and babysit the printer
Drop sensor error code that intermittently pops up.
Finally, it's begun spitting out the maintenance cartridge whenever it wakes up from idle - work-around either don't let it idle, or hard restart the printer without the MC in, then "replace" the MC before printing again.

We need to replace this machine since it's turning into sunk cost, but my question is with what? Another HP (560/570)? How do I know it won't be just like the 360? We have an Epson s80600, and I know the s60600 is a rock solid machine, but if we go bulk ink it'll be $6-7K more than a 570. Plus the latex can print on more/different media and dries immediately.

I feel stuck. On the one hand I like the positives of the latex, but dislike the quality of HPs. On the other hand I like the quality of the Epsons but dislike some of it's limitations.

Jordan,

Whatever digital printer you opt for, lease it for three years and purchase the extended two year warranty at same time. You will now have a new printer with a comprehensive three year warranty. Technology in the digital printer world seems to improve every three years. The current HP Latex 365, 560, and 570 are considerably better printers than you 5 year old 360. One of the HP Latex best features is its ability to print on so many more substrates than the typical mild solvent ink printers.

I think my favorite response from previous posters was Toms:
"Epson or Mimaki UCJV UV. Why would you invest in another HP that will give you all the same problems again in a few years?" I have sold HP, Mimaki, Epson, Roland, Mutoh, and Seiko (OKI) digital ink printers at one time or another for the past 20+ years; and, overwhelmingly, my customers with a 3+ year old HP Latex have had FAR LESS service issues than all of the others 3+ year old digital ink printers.

In the end, you should do what makes most sense to you! Good Printing!

 

[Jordan]

Thanks for all the responses. One of the reasons I like this place is that people take the time to respond thoughtfully.

Given the mix of work we do, and the fact that we have a hybrid flatbed, I think UV roll to roll is out as an option for us. I guess my question is whether others have seen a myriad of issues with their 360s or if we just got a problematic one. Like Tom said, I feel like I'm running the risk of getting burned twice by HP if I get another latex. But, I do like having the capabilities that the latex provides, and a fallback technology when one doesn't work.

I requested quotes for all of these from a couple of our vendors, and hope to make a decision soon.

 

[Ldireprophil]

Wow, I’ve run my Latex 365 almost everyday for the 2 1/2 years since I bought it new and it hasn’t given me a single problem whatsoever.

 

[TomK]

I have problems with my latex and another long time member here had many service and support problems with their hp 500 fleet and switched to Colorado UV, which prints many times faster with better output, search threads here his comments and journey.

Dealing with hp support has been a horrible experience, so I decided to vote with my money and will be giving it to another vendor.

 

[Gabil]

Latex 500 series are great machines. If you are looking for bulk, stick with 570. No printer has it all, they all have cons and pros. I have a customer who complains about eprson surecolor. She has to bring in tech almost every week.

 

[myront]

Although we have not had any major issues with our 360, we hate the media loading process and the take-up and....don't get me started.
And reds are just impossible.
We are looking to add another printer and would definitely lean towards the 560 as the loading process is so much better from the videos I've seen.