Laminating UV Inks?

[Brian27]

Hey all. We've got a roland uv flatbed and I've been trying to find a solution for protecting the prints. We were looking at a heat assisted SEAL laminator a few weeks ago. We did some tests on the non heat version and the results we're ok but not amazing and the adhesion to the uv ink didn't seem that great. I know there are a ton of different laminates to try but I don't really feel like doing a $14,000 experiment to find out if one will work.

I just got a small bottle of Clearshield liquid laminate based on a lot of recommendations and I can tell you that it simply does not work at all. At least on UV ink. Pretty much just puts a whitish haze over it and will peel right off.

Anyone out there have any solutions? I'd love to hear your experiences with laminating uv ink. Thanks!

 

[myront]

We use a Colorspan UV flatbead and once in a while laminate coro and pvc prints for longer life span. Our laminator can do either cold press or heated as well as encapsulate. We use 3M 8509 overlaminate cold press on the pvc's and coro. Works very well. Seal Image 6100 Ultra

 

[Andy D]

Two things:

1. Per suggestions from other signs 101 members, we switched to MacTac lamination, are we getting better
results.. not perfect, but better.

2. Earlier generations of most brands of UV inks did not laminate well. I'm in the process of switching
to a newer Agfa ink that laminates much better, does Roland have newer inks you could switch to?

 

[Brian27]

Two things:

1. Per suggestions from other signs 101 members, we switched to MacTac lamination, are we getting better
results.. not perfect, but better.

2. Earlier generations of most brands of UV inks did not laminate well. I'm in the process of switching
to a newer Agfa ink that laminates much better, does Roland have newer inks you could switch to?

I emailed them to see if they had any laminates that'd meet our needs. When you say "not perfect" what do you mean? We make furniture and one use will be to protect branded table tops so it really does need to come out pretty perfect since people will be sitting inches away from them vs. passing a sign by on the street.

Which laminator do you use? Myront says they're using a Seal 6100 which looks pretty serious. If we got one, it'd probably only be a Seal 54 Base.

 

[Brian27]

Also, is it possible to laminate printed panels with these machines? We'll be laminating directly to 3/16" to 3/4" thick acrylic and wood. I see plenty of videos of laminating vinyl prints but none of people laminating thick substrates. Is it just not common or is it not possibly/really difficult?

 

[MainostePrint]

Also, is it possible to laminate printed panels with these machines? We'll be laminating directly to 3/16" to 3/4" thick acrylic and wood. I see plenty of videos of laminating vinyl prints but none of people laminating thick substrates. Is it just not common or is it not possibly/really difficult?

imo it's actually easier to laminate rigid media than vinyl. I don't see thickness as a problem. So don't worry. You just have to learn couple of simple tricks to make it fly. We have seal 54base and 62base.

 

[MagnetStew]

Are you heating the Clearshield immediately after application? We only use Clearshield with our liquid laminater (Starlam 1600).

 

[Andy D]

I emailed them to see if they had any laminates that'd meet our needs. When you say "not perfect" what do you mean? We make furniture and one use will be to protect branded table tops so it really does need to come out pretty perfect since people will be sitting inches away from them vs. passing a sign by on the street.

Which laminator do you use? Myront says they're using a Seal 6100 which looks pretty serious. If we got one, it'd probably only be a Seal 54 Base.

It doesn't silver, but if the print is a full bleed with a dark background, it is possible to pull the lamination off the print... if that makes sense

 

[Brian27]

Are you heating the Clearshield immediately after application? We only use Clearshield with our liquid laminater (Starlam 1600).

Newp. Just applied it with a roller per the instructions. I get that it doesn't stick to this crappy Roland UV ink, but it still just doesn't seem to be very effective. I can put scratches and scuffs into it with light fingernail scratches. Maybe it's because it's a matte finish.

 

[Brian27]

It doesn't silver, but if the print is a full bleed with a dark background, it is possible to pull the lamination off the print... if that makes sense

Yeah thats my worry. A lot of what we do is full bleed and black. I think I'll just pull the trigger on the Seal and hope I can find laminate that works. Not many other options at this point anyways.

Thank you all for your help!

 

[MagnetStew]

Newp. Just applied it with a roller per the instructions. I get that it doesn't stick to this crappy Roland UV ink, but it still just doesn't seem to be very effective. I can put scratches and scuffs into it with light fingernail scratches. Maybe it's because it's a matte finish.

Yeah, we tried the roll on stuff once and it was horrible. I would only recommend clear shield (or something comparable) if you have a liquid laminator.

 

[ImpactSignCo]

We have laminated UV inks in the past with standard Oraguard 210 right to Dibond without any problems. We are using a 12' RollsRoller.

 

[Brian27]

So we received the Seal 54 and laminate samples from Mactac yesterday. To my surprise it's very simple to us. Mactac sent us two samples they said would be a good match for UV inks and would be durable. I think they're actually for floor graphics. One is a polycarb 5 mil matte and the other is way too textured to be useful. I like the 5 mil but it doesn't seem to be any more durable than the crappiest vinyl I have laying around and will scratch from fingernails. It's also $620 a roll which is like =O We did our showroom floor for a cheaper sq/ft cost. lol

Just wondering if anyone has other laminate suggestions. Something durable enough to protect a table top but not impossibly expensive...and that sticks to UV inks of course.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Is there any reason you can't just second surface print to a piece of acrylic (or whatever) for the table top? Or am I missing something here?

I believe MACtac has a laminate that's made specifically for use with UV printed vinyl, but I don't think it's going to give you any extra protection over any other type of laminate. It just eliminates the halo effect.

 

[TimToad]

We have a Gerber IONx and for smaller stuff, we've had good luck with the solvent based spray Frogjuice and ClearShield Production Clear which is formulated specifically for UV inks and rigid substrates. We have a spray gun just for it and it works fine. The only issue with the Production Clear is it comes in gallons only for about $100 per, so make sure you use it regularly enough to justify the cost. Marabu makes it and sells a sample size from its website to try if you'd like.

After way too much frustration and inconsistent results rolling any of these products, we now spray these 100% of the time and like the results.

 

[player]

Any laminates I have used are very easily scratched and scuffed.

 

[boxerbay]

vinyl table top will always have a durability issue. vinyl will always scuff or tear and wear with time regardless if you get a laminate to stick.

 

[Brian27]

Is there any reason you can't just second surface print to a piece of acrylic (or whatever) for the table top? Or am I missing something here?

These are for table tops in bars/restaurants and clear acrylic or polycarbonate is the most scratch prone material there is. Unfortunately they wouldn't last a week.

We have a Gerber IONx and for smaller stuff, we've had good luck with the solvent based spray Frogjuice and ClearShield Production Clear which is formulated specifically for UV inks and rigid substrates.

As mentioned above we initially tried the Clearshield hoping to avoid a laminator but it didn't work at all in the tests we did. It would literally peal right off the ink. =/

 

[ChrisN]

MacTac ColorGard LUV is what was recommended to me for use with our UV printer. It comes in 3 different sheens - matt, lustre, and gloss. It's supposed to be more flexible to go over the slightly raised UV print.

 

[Baz]

Spray on automotive clear?

If we're talking commercial furniture. Any vinyl laminate will scratch, rip and leave an adhesive residue. Clear acrylic you don't want. So my suggestions would be a hard, spray on clear.