Laptop or desktop?

[WildWestDesigns]

Then there's the kind of nasty way how these companies don't really let customers configure the systems with just the bells and whistles they want. Basically if you want one just one particular feature maxed out you often get forced into a configuration category that maxes out just about everything else. Often the resulting configuration ends up being too expensive. The Razer Blade Pro 17 is one example. If you want a 2160p UHD screen you first have to choose the most expensive video card option for the the UHD option to become available.

System 76 allows for quite a bit of customization. Still have some limits based on what you get, but they do appear to have the most options compared to a lot of other OEMs.

The biggest problem is the OS that these come preinstalled with. It's PopOS, which is really good even though it is Gnome based (you won't like the looks of it though even if you could use it for your software, we both despise the looks of GIMP and if I recall correctly, you aren't too fond of Inkscape as well, well Gnome is where that UI aesthetic comes from on GTK based app). Now, I highly doubt that there would be a problem if you were to load Win 10 on it, but then that's going an extra mile on top of spending quite a bit of money (while they do production in house of their laptop shells etc, they don't have the economy of scale like the more well known OEMS). It's a shame that more and more people couldn't use them, because another fun fact, is that one can also get the specs of the hardware that they make as well to fix things if necessary. Which some OEMs are going quite the opposite way.

Biggest thing is 3rd party software limitation for a lot of people. Shame.


I would suspect that things are going to get worse in customization compared to getting better when trying to more customization with their lineups. I would suspect in the coming yrs, companies are going to go leaner with their options. At least in the short term.

 

[GAC05]

Just remember, laptops are much easier to knock off the desk than workstations but do make less noise when they hit the floor.

 

[Pauly]

Some of the comments make me laugh.. LOL

You dont need a gaming laptop, nor do you need a work station. They both have their place in the industry, but not in the "creators" side.

Gaming laptops: They have top end laptop CPUs, intel i7 or i9 with 6 - 8 cores, which is great for multitasking and using any creative application with speed. most come with 16gb ram, which is plenty for most, not enough for some. They all come with a graphics card which is either a Nvidia GTX or an RTX series. any will do as most graphic design software dont utilise GPUs much.
The downside with gaming laptops is their screens are for gaming, and not content creating. They all have 1080 (full HD) screens at 60-120Hz + and not the most colour accurate.

Workstations: similar to a gaming laptop, although can be equipped with Xeon processors and much more ram. 32gb -128gb. They generally run Nvidia Quadro series graphics cards which are much much more expensive to the RTX range in gaming laptops, which have no benefit in the graphics industry. They can have better screen options if chosen, for example: 4k 100% Adobe RGB.
generally most workstations will have 2 storage slots 2x SSD (M.2) and some have space for a HDD or even 2. which are configurable in a RAID 1 configuration, where data loss can be prevented.

Content creating: to surprise a lot of you, yes there are specific laptops for content creating, including the macbook pro range. These generally have the same processors as gaming laptops and workstations i7 & i9 6-8 core processors. Nvidia RTX Graphics card, 16-64gb ram. They all have 4k 100% adobe RGB screens.
These are generally slightly thinner than gaming laptops as they need less cooling as you wont be using all if it's hardware 100% all of the time as you would while playing games. they also look more sleek and "professional"

Thin and light: These are basically the rest of the laptops out there. some are very good and some are cheap and nasty. they mostly use lower powered CPUs and most wont have a graphics card. more for general use. Even though some will say i7, it's a much lower spec i7 than what you'd find in the 3 types of laptops listed above.

Although the specs can seem same/similar. the slight differences between them all, make up the difference.

Gaming laptops: Dell alienware, Asus ROG, Lenovo legion. ect.
Workstations: Lenovo thinkpad, Dell Precision, HP Zbook. ect.
Content creating laptops: MSI creator series, Asus Zenbook/Studiobook, gigabyte aero. Dell XPS 15 (higher end models) ect.

For the OP: Laptops these days are quite powerful. desktops are still better. There will always be a gap between the 2.

It's hard to tell someone to get one or the other as you know if you need a desktop or rather a laptop.
I personally use a very powerful laptop as i need the same laptop for home and work.
If i didn't need my laptop for work, i'd rather a good desktop and have a cheaper thin & light to use around the house.
But with a proper content creating laptop (or the other 2), you can generally use them to plug into a monitor, keyboard and mouse and use as a desktop with a much bigger screen too, is what i do at home when i use my office.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Just remember, laptops are much easier to knock off the desk than workstations but do make less noise when they hit the floor.

In my case, a coffee spill on a laptop keyboard will cost you much more than a desktop keyboard.

 

[Bobby H]

Good gaming laptop will be $1200-$1700. A workstation laptop of equivalent specs will be double that.

Not necessarily. Look back at my example of the Razer Blade Pro 17. Their 17" system with 16GB of RAM and a UHD screen (along with the nVidia MaxQ video card) weighs over the $3500 barrier. The Dell 7740 Precision Workstation with double the RAM, a 100% Adobe RGB UHD screen and a 6GB Quadro card costs about the same price.

Dell's G-series notebooks are limited on what you can put in them compared to what's available on the Alienware line. And even on current Alienware notebooks (the M15 and M17) I can't put more than 16GB of RAM in one (Dell's G-series also tops out at 16GB). That sucks. It's the year 2020 now. Those high end notebooks ought to be able to hold 32GB or 64GB, if not more. The previous Alienware models could support up to 32GB of RAM. If you want more than 16GB of RAM Alienware pretty much tells you to "pony up to the bar, big boy" and spend HUGE for the freaking Area 51 notebook. Right now the Area 51 is the only Alienware notebook worth a hoot, but it costs a giant fortune when well equipped.

Another thing that deal-breaks current Alienware offers: all of their displays currently max out at 1080p HD. Even on the ultra-expensive Area 51 model. There's no QHD or UHD options. I totally understand the FHD standards for gaming (increasing frame rates). But for creative content creation we often want higher resolution screens.

System 76 allows for quite a bit of customization. Still have some limits based on what you get, but they do appear to have the most options compared to a lot of other OEMs.

The notebooks from System 76 don't offer any resolutions higher than 1080p. I looked at their 17" product line. There are no QHD or UHD options for the display. There is no mention on the color quality of the displays either (like Adobe RGB coverage, etc). And I would have to buy a Windows disc to load on the machine after buying it. So, like you said earlier, yeah that's going to be a pass coming from me.

They generally run Nvidia Quadro series graphics cards which are much much more expensive to the RTX range in gaming laptops, which have no benefit in the graphics industry.

Actually nVidia Quadro cards are going to perform better for content creation than the typical gaming card. So they do provide benefits for graphics creation. They're better tuned for 2D graphics acceleration. And they have a decent amount of bells and whistles for 3D modeling/animation applications. Some sign people occasionally have to dabble in 3D and motion graphics for making content for LED displays.

Video cards made for gaming and video cards made for 2D/3D rendering are two entirely different animals. If a regular top of the line gaming card was deemed just as powerful as a professional 3D modeling/animation card, such as an nVidia Quadro GP100 -a card that alone can cost over $10,000- all the 3D modelers and animators would just buy far cheaper gaming cards. Why spend $10,000 on a card if a $500 card supposedly can perform just as well? The truth is the $500 card does not perform as well. In the end you get what you pay for.

When buying a new computer I try to spend as hard into my pain threshold as I can stand. I'm currently typing on a notebook I bought way back in 2011. This machine has lasted this long because I spent fairly handsomely up front for it. Even the built-in Blu-ray burner still works. But I'm starting to count the days until the boot hard disc fails. And a 2011-era Core i7 CPU just isn't quite cutting the mustard anymore. So it's getting to be time to upgrade. But this upgrade is going to be a smart one and not one done on stupid, desperate impulse

 

[ikarasu]

I'd stay clear of dell for laptops. Their coil whine has turned me off of them. I had to go through 3 different laptops of my current model to get one where the whine wasnt as noticeable... Even then when I was using it for creating content and it was quiet, it drove me crazy and I ended up buying microsoft... bit more expensive but worth it. Dell uses cheap motherboards, and in my experience it's a crapshoot on if you'll get a good one or not.

A laptop can do anything a work PC can do if you pick the right one. You dont want one thats too powerful though, or the battery will die quick (Unless you plan on keeping it constantly plugged in).

I hate apple with a passion, but their laptops are decently built and speced. Still a bit overpriced IMO, but for the form factor and durability of it (Although with each new model, apple has been shitting the bed and cheaping out... Their over priced products used to at least come with a guarantee that theyre top of the line and good build quality... Since jobs died, they're going more towards cheap crap). I know a few people who buy them then wipe the hard drive and install windows in bootcamp.

 

[Pauly]

Actually nVidia Quadro cards are going to perform better for content creation than the typical gaming card. So they do provide benefits for graphics creation. They're better tuned for 2D graphics acceleration. And they have a decent amount of bells and whistles for 3D modeling/animation applications. Some sign people occasionally have to dabble in 3D and motion graphics for making content for LED displays.

Video cards made for gaming and video cards made for 2D/3D rendering are two entirely different animals. If a regular top of the line gaming card was deemed just as powerful as a professional 3D modeling/animation card, such as an nVidia Quadro GP100 -a card that alone can cost over $10,000- all the 3D modelers and animators would just buy far cheaper gaming cards. Why spend $10,000 on a card if a $500 card supposedly can perform just as well? The truth is the $500 card does not perform as well. In the end you get what you pay for.

Quadros have their place.
When using applications for graphics design, photography, or anything for printing. you are absolutely wasting your money on a quadro.

unless you're doing 3d rendering/modelling, solid works, machine learning, 8k video (not all and so on. then yes, and at that point you know you need a quadro)
Yes there are programs that works much much better with a quadro card vs Geforce.
even using a Quadro GP100 for adobe premier pro, unless you're using a 10bit display, a GTX1080ti gives the same performance. RTX support 10bit displays now too so why even use a GP100 for adobe premier pro? Also Nvidia offer studio drivers for their Geforce cards optimised for studio based programs.

 

[Bobby H]

I'd stay clear of dell for laptops. Their coil whine has turned me off of them. I had to go through 3 different laptops of my current model to get one where the whine wasnt as noticeable... Even then when I was using it for creating content and it was quiet, it drove me crazy and I ended up buying microsoft... bit more expensive but worth it. Dell uses cheap motherboards, and in my experience it's a crapshoot on if you'll get a good one or not.

I personally haven't had any serious problems with Dell systems. That's what we usually but not always buy at my workplace. I've bought multiple Dell systems at home. But it deserves a bold asterisk that I buy much more on the expensive end than anything "mainstream" and "affordable." The first Dell notebook I bought lasted me six years. The current one I'm using has lasted almost nine years, which seems better than average.

Really, with any notebook product line you're going to give up a lot on product life when trying to cut costs. Still, it would be nice if a 2020 era notebook PC for graphics creation didn't weigh in past the $3000 to $4000 barrier. I have the money in the bank but spending upwards or above $4000 on a notebook is not what I would call "fun."

Everybody has their own needs for escaping the computer desk with buying a notebook. I highly recommend it because having your leg chained to a computer desk after office hours just sucks. Back in the day I didn't mind so much, but I was also spending a lot of time on that desktop PC playing online death matches in Quake II or Quake III Arena. But that's game playing and not work. I don't play nearly as much video games now as I did 20 years ago. So the notebook is more a work tool than one of leisure. While I know there are outrageously amazing desktop systems out there, in my own personal case I prefer something I can rest on the coffee table in my living room or on my lap to use after office hours. Right now we're living thru this horrible SARS-CoV-2 pandemic. But in other better times one could take their work to a restaurant, coffee shop, park or wherever to just get out of the house or out of the office while getting work done. That's the real beauty of notebook computers. They afford that kind of freedom.

When using applications for graphics design, photography, or anything for printing. you are absolutely wasting your money on a quadro.

Adobe applications for one thing beg to differ. For After Effects work, especially when bringing in Cinema 4D for the ride, the Quadro cards are going to perform better than the typical nVidia or ATI/AMD gaming card. Gaming cards are much more focused on pushing shaded triangles inside a game rather than beefing up 2D and 3D performance in creative applications. Gaming cards really serve a pretty narrow niche.

 

[Pauly]

Adobe applications for one thing beg to differ. For After Effects work, especially when bringing in Cinema 4D for the ride, the Quadro cards are going to perform better than the typical nVidia or ATI/AMD gaming card. Gaming cards are much more focused on pushing shaded triangles inside a game rather than beefing up 2D and 3D performance in creative applications. Gaming cards really serve a pretty narrow niche.

If that was the case, then why do most tech youtubers, who edit 4k or 8k raw video use mostly (modern) systems built with a i9 9900k, i7 9700k, Ryzen 9900x or 3950x pared with a RTX2080 & RTX2080ti. or older systems with a 7700k, 7900k, 7980x, pared with a GTX1080 or 1080ti.

all GPUs have their place. Geforce line are far more capable than just playing games.
I edit 4k footage on my asus zenbook pro which has an i9 9980hk and an RTX2060 with no issues.
Runs even better after i decided to put better thermal paste and run an undervolt... but that's a different story.
Why would i spend +50% on a similar spec lenovo thinkpad p series workstation with a i7 9750h and a T2000 with only 4gb of video memory when it'll be less capable at photo and video.
And basically all content creation laptops are pared with a RTX2060, 2070 or 2080 with either an i7 or i9.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'd stay clear of dell for laptops. Their coil whine has turned me off of them. I had to go through 3 different laptops of my current model to get one where the whine wasnt as noticeable... Even then when I was using it for creating content and it was quiet, it drove me crazy and I ended up buying microsoft... bit more expensive but worth it. Dell uses cheap motherboards, and in my experience it's a crapshoot on if you'll get a good one or not.

A laptop can do anything a work PC can do if you pick the right one. You dont want one thats too powerful though, or the battery will die quick (Unless you plan on keeping it constantly plugged in).

I hate apple with a passion, but their laptops are decently built and speced. Still a bit overpriced IMO, but for the form factor and durability of it (Although with each new model, apple has been shitting the bed and cheaping out... Their over priced products used to at least come with a guarantee that theyre top of the line and good build quality... Since jobs died, they're going more towards cheap crap). I know a few people who buy them then wipe the hard drive and install windows in bootcamp.

I don't like it either, that noise bothered me. I turned down the turbo using a cup throttle app and it eliminated it without noticeable lag.

 

[Pauly]

I don't like it either, that noise bothered me. I turned down the turbo using a cup throttle app and it eliminated it without noticeable lag.

I use to use a Dell XPS 13 9630 i7 7500u 16gb ram. never really noticed any coil whine.
Although i did pull apart the heatsink and put better thermal paste onthe cpu then use throttlestop and undervolted the CPU. it runs at full turbo boost all day with out passing 80 deg.

 

[Stacey K]

I got the Dell G7 laptop a few years ago, the version that has a Core i7, 16GB RAM. It's a gaming laptop and it does everything I need with no lag. Look for a "Gaming Laptop". Technically workstations are the proper suggestion from the egg head types trying to act like they know something the commoner doesn't, but a gaming PC will be half the cost and do the same thing. I went to college for IT so I have an idea of the differences between the hardware and for sign people, it's not worth the bragging rights.

Good gaming laptop will be $1200-$1700. A workstation laptop of equivalent specs will be double that.

All my computers have always been gaming computers, I've never had any problems with them either!

 

[Johnny Best]

I have use nothing but MacBookPro laptops since the 90s. Note: please WildWest and Bobby H, keep your Radio Shack knowledge to yourself on the Apple products.
That being said, never spilled coffee of dropped one. When I travel just pack in my Manhattan waxed canvas messenger bag and carry it with me. Can do work on plane, terminal and where ever I go. It runs the Adobe products at fast speeds and it never lags. I buy a new one every year. Run my printer and RIP with one and my plotter with one. I can take them apart and add new harddrives and ram and if needed a new battery.
In the Covid lockdown I am learning the Affinity programs that run fantastic on the PowerBook.
If things work out with Affinity I might even go to the dark side and get a Surface Go because those look interesting. I also use a Wacom tablet with the laptop.

 

[Pauly]

All my computers have always been gaming computers, I've never had any problems with them either!

Dont need gaming laptops these days to get the power from those laptops. Any creator laptop will have similar spec in a more sleek chassis with a higher resolution screen and more colour accurate.

 

[Bobby H]

If that was the case, then why do most tech youtubers, who edit 4k or 8k raw video use mostly (modern) systems built with a i9 9900k, i7 9700k, Ryzen 9900x or 3950x pared with a RTX2080 & RTX2080ti. or older systems with a 7700k, 7900k, 7980x, pared with a GTX1080 or 1080ti.

"Most tech youtubers"? What does this claim even mean? If I'm going to go by what the professionals use I'm going to be looking at real video production studios and visual effects firms. They're mainly using workstation level stuff and Quadro based boards, not consumer cards tuned for playing Doom Eternal. This doesn't mean I'm personally going to go blow a ton of money on a top end Quadro card for my next notebook. But nVidia and AMD wouldn't be selling any of their high end workstation graphics boards to anyone if they didn't make a difference over a much cheaper gaming board.

Also, the Core i9 CPU is a waste of money in all but the thickest notebooks due to all the thermal issues that cause the CPU to throttle down to Core i7 or even i5 levels of performance. If I have to resort to under-volting the very high priced CPU I might as well just save some money and by a more modest CPU that isn't prone to overheating the notebook.

BTW, the 4K and 8K stuff is mostly baloney. Most Hollywood movies are still only produced at 2K resolution. Over 90% of the movies sold on the UHD Blu-ray format are upscaled from 2K sources. It's fake 4K. Yeah, there are several d-cinema camera systems out there that can shoot in native 6K and 8K. The Arri Alexa65 has a huge sensor the same size as a 5-perf 65mm film frame. Most of the time all that extra resolution gets down-sampled to 2K in post production to match up with all the CGI and digital back lot work. It is technologically feasible to make an effects-driven movie in native 8K resolution. But none of the bean counters in Hollywood want to do that. They want to use all the latest advancements in technology to crank out 2K resolution product even faster. On top of that, there are no digital cinema projection systems that go above 4K resolution.

I have use nothing but MacBookPro laptops since the 90s. Note: please WildWest and Bobby H, keep your Radio Shack knowledge to yourself on the Apple products.

Don't mention my name (and do so a snotty way) if you don't want a response. It's a fact the current MacBook Pro line has thermal problems (just like the current Dell XPS systems and several others). High end CPUs like the Core i9 are 100% a waste of money in those things.

It runs the Adobe products at fast speeds and it never lags. I buy a new one every year. Run my printer and RIP with one and my plotter with one. I can take them apart and add new harddrives and ram and if needed a new battery.

You buy a new notebook every year? The stuff you're buying must not be very good or hold up well at all if you're having to replace it that often. As for the claim of being able to take it apart, Apple's notebooks are notorious for not being user service-able. Sadly many other computer manufacturers copied Apple's anti-customer tactics.

 

[Pauly]

"Most tech youtubers"? What does this claim even mean? If I'm going to go by what the professionals use I'm going to be looking at real video production studios and visual effects firms. They're mainly using workstation level stuff and Quadro based boards, not consumer cards tuned for playing Doom Eternal. This doesn't mean I'm personally going to go blow a ton of money on a top end Quadro card for my next notebook. But nVidia and AMD wouldn't be selling any of their high end workstation graphics boards to anyone if they didn't make a difference over a much cheaper gaming board.

Also, the Core i9 CPU is a waste of money in all but the thickest notebooks due to all the thermal issues that cause the CPU to throttle down to Core i7 or even i5 levels of performance. If I have to resort to under-volting the very high priced CPU I might as well just save some money and by a more modest CPU that isn't prone to overheating the notebook.

A lot of tech youtubers use RED 8k cameras. go look at linus techtips or MKBHD for example.

and have you tested the claim that an i5 will be quicker than an i9 9980hk in a laptop? i highly doubt it. any high end CPU will throttle in a laptop. the i7 9780h gets just as hot and does not keep up with an i9 9980hk
you can read all the internet you want. if you dont have first hand exp, well how can i believe an i9 will throttle to i5 performance. wheres your numbers? i mean i have both an i9 9980hk laptop and a i7 9780h laptop. you're going to tell me the i7 is faster? well you're wrong.
and FYI, my 9980hk does not thermal throttle. it'll get to 92 deg while on turbo boost to 5ghz, and that's it.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

This would be my choice or close to it
https://www.amazon.com/Newest-Lenov...inkpad+17&qid=1587579879&s=electronics&sr=1-8

 

[Johnny Best]

You buy a new notebook every year? The stuff you're buying must not be very good or hold up well at all if you're having to replace it that often

Oh wait is that Bobby behind the counter at Radio Shack trying to sell me a Tandy?
Also, since you do not work for yourself you can deduct a computer off your taxes at the end of the year. I either sell the working laptops on Ebay or keep them for other tasks. Apple makes an excellent laptop.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

...

 

[Stacey K]

This would be my choice or close to it
https://www.amazon.com/Newest-Lenov...inkpad+17&qid=1587579879&s=electronics&sr=1-8

Thank you!!! I tend to lean towards Lenovo. There's a lot of info on this post to read...this link gets me started. Appreciate it!