Question Mimaki JV150 OEM Defective Damper from Digiprint short circuits printhead, slider board & main board

[Custom Banner11]

Has anyone else with a Mimaki printer had a "new" damper failure that resulted in ink leaking from what appears to be delamination of the clear material that covers the side of the damper? The damper did not leak from either the top where the ink line comes into the damper or from the bottom where the damper secures to the head. I have a video that clearly shows the ink running out of the side of the clear plastic. I can post photos or a video if needed. This occurred on a used CJV150-130 printer that I recently purchased for use in my business. I have three Mimaki JV33's and one ten foot JV5 that I have personally done all the maintenance and repairs on for the past 10 to 15 years. I have replaced dozens of printheads and hundreds of dampers. Unfortunately I have gotten to be pretty good around these printers. I have never experienced a damper that leaked such as this one. I had just installed the new head with four new OEM dampers and a new cap. The process went well. I primed the head with ink (Triangle) using a syringe above the ink pump. Had good resistance drawing the ink. Nothing unusual. Test draw was excellent. Changed the head id#'s, did the alignments and sent a 10 or so foot banner. Printer was running well. Sent another 10 or so foot banner. Came back to find the printer had stopped. Got a message something about "stopping job due to insufficient nozzles". I glanced down at the printhead and saw cyan ink oozing out from under and around the head. Knowing what ink can do to circuit boards, I immediately powered off the printer. Unfortunately this event shorted the head, slider and I am almost certain the main board as well. I mention in the post that I purchased the parts from Digiprint. This is not to suggest that I feel they are responsible or have done anything wrong. Actually I have purchased many heads and other printer parts from them. They have been very good. They have a former Mimaki technician on staff to help advise when a customer needs. This is a convenient service.

Mimaki on the other hand is unwilling to accept any responsibility at least at this point. Hopefully they come around. They are indicating that because I am not a licensed Mimaki Technician and am using Non OEM inks in the printer, they cannot help. It seems to me that neither of these points have any relevance to an OEM damper leaking. If there are others out there who have experienced a similar issue, I would be interested in hearing about their experience.

My suggestion to others replacing dampers on CJV or JV 150's or 300's, check in on these dampers for dripping ink after the initial installation of the damper. Obviously it is important to get the ink line into the top of the damper properly as well as making certain that the damper bottom clicks into place fully. Not doing these properly can result in leaking ink. However, having the damper leak from the side is totally unexpected and difficult to identify without taking it off the head. This makes it very difficult to figure out it is leaking until the damage has already been done to the tune of thousands of dollars.

 

[Solventinkjet]

I've been working on machines for about 15 years and I've never seen a brand new damper leak like that other than if it had obvious physical damage. It's possible it was damaged in shipping or something I'm guessing.

Also, just a note, if you had to input the head rank number, the head was most likely not an original Mimaki head. That's not to say the head is wrong. At the end of the day it's an Epson DX7 head. But an original Mimaki head will come with the head memory board and will automatically update the head rank when installed. If the head didn't come with the head memory board you know for sure it wasn't original. If it did come with a board and you still had to input the rank number, it's not original. The original head also comes with new cables that have a plastic shield that protects the cables form ink splatter. The fact that your memory chip has a fair amount of ink on it and the head is missing the plastic shield tells me you were sold a non-original head.

The dampers do look OEM though so they should be able to put in a 90 day parts warranty with Mimaki and at least get you a new damper.

 

[Custom Banner11]

I've been working on machines for about 15 years and I've never seen a brand new damper leak like that other than if it had obvious physical damage. It's possible it was damaged in shipping or something I'm guessing.

Also, just a note, if you had to input the head rank number, the head was most likely not an original Mimaki head. That's not to say the head is wrong. At the end of the day it's an Epson DX7 head. But an original Mimaki head will come with the head memory board and will automatically update the head rank when installed. If the head didn't come with the head memory board you know for sure it wasn't original. If it did come with a board and you still had to input the rank number, it's not original. The original head also comes with new cables that have a plastic shield that protects the cables form ink splatter. The fact that your memory chip has a fair amount of ink on it and the head is missing the plastic shield tells me you were sold a non-original head.

The dampers do look OEM though so they should be able to put in a 90 day parts warranty with Mimaki and at least get you a new damper.

Hi
Thanks for your response. Actually the head is a DX6 not a DX7. All my previous experience is with DX5 heads. In any event, I am confident that you are correct about the head not being OEM. I used the memory board off the old printhead thus had to put in the new head ID. I do have the plastic shield that protects the cables which will go back on once this is finally running.

As for why the damper leaked , I am truly uncertain. Since they come individually boxed and wrapped in plastic, it would have been very obvious if this had occurred in shipping. It did not. I spoke with the former Mimaki Technician at Digiprint who indicated he had only seen this occur once before on a printer that he repaired with similar results. He suggested that I was very unlucky. I am new to working on this newer style JV150. Though inserting dampers into the head seems much better in terms of ultimately maintaining good vacuum, they do not slide in as easily as one might expect. Could I have damaged the damper during install? I really do not see how. In fact, the way the dampers go into the DX6 housing, assuming you get them fully clicked into place, is much improved over the DX5 both in terms of reduced chance of cracking nipples and improved ability to maintain vacuum. The lack of brass fittings with small "o" rings seems a vast improvement (assuming they all click into place) which I suspect reduces the chance for loss of vacuum and increases the longevity of the life of the head and quality of the print. Overall, from what I can see, Mimaki improved an already good print platform.

Interestingly, given your feeling that I should at least get a new warranteed damper after it caused $5,000 damage, you apparently buy into the "let the buyer beware" mentality. If I owned Solvent Ink Jet, I probably would keep that feeling to myself.
Sincerely,

 

[Solventinkjet]

Interestingly, given your feeling that I should at least get a new warranteed damper after it caused $5,000 damage, you apparently buy into the "let the buyer beware" mentality. If I owned Solvent Ink Jet, I probably would keep that feeling to myself.
Sincerely,

No, just giving you free info about how Mimaki handles defective parts and what their policies are. I'm not the one who sold you a defective part!

 

[SightLine]

That really stinks. However (and I've done my own work for 20 years as well on JV3, JV33, and now JV150) one thing I've always known doing the repairs myself.... 100% of the risk is on me as anything that goes wrong can always be blamed on me and I have no recourse. I save a TON of money though. I could spend a ton, then if something goes wrong, any blame (and the cost to rectify it) falls on someone else. Pretty much how its always been in the DIY repair industry. Same with auto parts and fixing your own car - get a bad alternator and it fries your PCM, BCM, stereo, etc... the parts store is only going to replace the faulty alternator they sold you, tough luck on the other parts it fried. In nearly all industries, including even the vinyl we print on, if the item proves defective, the limitation of the manufacturers liability is they will replace the defective item, nothing more (and usually spelled out direct or indirectly caused). I've directly run into this with vinyl - Avery, 3M, etc are not going to compensate for the loss of time, additionak ink to reprint, reprint time, removal, reinstall, irritated customer, etc. They will send you a replacement roll.

That being said - I've also never seen that on an OEM damper but I have had pinhole leaks in generic dampers (which is why I will never use them anymore). What strikes me as off though is even when I had discovered leaks in dampers before, ink does not leak out, it sucks air in. This part of the ink system is negative pressure and under vacuum so for ink to leak out of a damper, it would have to be a pretty big leak.

Edit to add - regardless..... I feel for you. Really sucky scenario to be in. Good luck!

 

[Custom Banner11]

No, just giving you free info about how Mimaki handles defective parts and what their policies are. I'm not the one who sold you a defective part!

Sorry. I am a little touchy about this issue. I bought a used printer, drove 10 hours each way on one Sunday to pick it up, flushed the ink once back at my company, installed an Ink Control modulator board to use non-OEM ink, installed a bulk ink system, converted from 8 color to dual CMYK (which took some serious research), filled with ink, primed the head and got a marginal test draw. Ran some sample prints and after a day had about 90% of the test draw. the printer was like new other than the test draw. Thought about using it for lower res banner jobs but ultimately decided that another $2,000 on a head, dampers and cap was the way to go for my customers. Ultimately one leaking damper has cost me another $2,700 for a head and a slider and it still is not working. Probably need the main board next. Really not interested in how Mimaki handles defective parts but rather how they should handle defective parts. I am quite confident that they employ ISO or similar International Standards of Quality. This means that they have procedures in place as well as a data tracking system to identify when and where a defect in a specific product was incurred. This allows them to determine the cause of the defect and minimize the impact on their product line, their profits and ultimately their customers. It is surprising to me at the lack of interest from Mimaki regarding this issue. It is possible that I am wrong about the reason for the leaking damper. It is also possible that I am correct. If I were Mimaki, I would have been here 2 weeks ago trying to assess the issue given the implication to their product line. Hard to fathom a $40 part wreaking so much damage.

Given the obvious quality of their printers, I am also confident that someone in corporate Mimaki would take this defective damper very seriously. My apologies for jumping to conclusions with your free info.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Sorry. I am a little touchy about this issue. I bought a used printer, drove 10 hours each way on one Sunday to pick it up, flushed the ink once back at my company, installed an Ink Control modulator board to use non-OEM ink, installed a bulk ink system, converted from 8 color to dual CMYK (which took some serious research), filled with ink, primed the head and got a marginal test draw. Ran some sample prints and after a day had about 90% of the test draw. the printer was like new other than the test draw. Thought about using it for lower res banner jobs but ultimately decided that another $2,000 on a head, dampers and cap was the way to go for my customers. Ultimately one leaking damper has cost me another $2,700 for a head and a slider and it still is not working. Probably need the main board next. Really not interested in how Mimaki handles defective parts but rather how they should handle defective parts. I am quite confident that they employ ISO or similar International Standards of Quality. This means that they have procedures in place as well as a data tracking system to identify when and where a defect in a specific product was incurred. This allows them to determine the cause of the defect and minimize the impact on their product line, their profits and ultimately their customers. It is surprising to me at the lack of interest from Mimaki regarding this issue. It is possible that I am wrong about the reason for the leaking damper. It is also possible that I am correct. If I were Mimaki, I would have been here 2 weeks ago trying to assess the issue given the implication to their product line. Hard to fathom a $40 part wreaking so much damage.

Given the obvious quality of their printers, I am also confident that someone in corporate Mimaki would take this defective damper very seriously. My apologies for jumping to conclusions with your free info.

You're good. I totally get it! I'm not saying I 100% agree with the way things work at all but in my experience, the second you mention 3rd party inks and end user part install, they will blame that from that point on no matter what. I've been aiding people fix their own machines for a long time now and even to this day my manufacturer reps will tell me all about how end users can't fix their own printers and it's a huge liability etc. Meanwhile I can literally give thousands of examples of people fixing their own machine. So at the end of the day the choice is either spend a bunch of money for a certified tech to do it (the only way Mimaki sees as legitimate) and be covered if anything goes wrong, or save a bunch of money but take a much bigger risk by doing it yourself. I get your point because you know you received a defective part for the most part but form Mimaki's perspective, they will never be able to tell if it was defective or if you scraped it against something sharp and broke it by accident. So unfortunately that cost ende up on the end user. And again, I'm not saying I agree 100% or not but it is the current state of things.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Sounds like operator error. You probably bought some cheap Chinese damper and now you're looking for someone to be mad at for it. We've all done it at some point. Some less publicly than others.

 

[Custom Banner11]

Sounds like operator error. You probably bought some cheap Chinese damper and now you're looking for someone to be mad at for it. We've all done it at some point. Some less publicly than others.

I purchased 4 OEM dampers for our CJV150-130 for $42 each from Digiprint as well as the head. I have owned my wholesale print company for 23 years. We supply the trade with ecosolvent and dye sub printing. We have 4 JV33-160's and 1 JV5-320 used for dyesub. I have a Printhead Doctor which I use to clean heads periodically. I have not had an outside technician in my plant in probably 15 years. I repair all of our equipment. Over the years I have become quite proficient at taking care of these machines. It makes little sense to use non OEM parts when it comes to maintaining vacuum within the ink train. Nothing is more important for continuous printing than using the highest quality ink pumps, dampers, "o" rings, caps (I buy the entire station every other year) etc and replacing them at least annually. We print overnight, unattended almost every night. We routinely print 164ft rolls of vinyl overnight. This would not happen with cheap Chinese products. I am in today (Saturday) as we have a 5,600 lineal foot job all 3 feet wide that must deliver in May. Sorry if you see my post as a public rant. I am in hopes of letting others know that they should be aware that replacing dampers yourself, even if they are potentially defective, could be very costly indeed and those that make and sell this equipment are always looking for an escape route from culpability. My advice is to check for leaks soon after installing. It could save you even if you are not a real sign guy.

 

[Custom Banner11]

That really stinks. However (and I've done my own work for 20 years as well on JV3, JV33, and now JV150) one thing I've always known doing the repairs myself.... 100% of the risk is on me as anything that goes wrong can always be blamed on me and I have no recourse. I save a TON of money though. I could spend a ton, then if something goes wrong, any blame (and the cost to rectify it) falls on someone else. Pretty much how its always been in the DIY repair industry. Same with auto parts and fixing your own car - get a bad alternator and it fries your PCM, BCM, stereo, etc... the parts store is only going to replace the faulty alternator they sold you, tough luck on the other parts it fried. In nearly all industries, including even the vinyl we print on, if the item proves defective, the limitation of the manufacturers liability is they will replace the defective item, nothing more (and usually spelled out direct or indirectly caused). I've directly run into this with vinyl - Avery, 3M, etc are not going to compensate for the loss of time, additionak ink to reprint, reprint time, removal, reinstall, irritated customer, etc. They will send you a replacement roll.

That being said - I've also never seen that on an OEM damper but I have had pinhole leaks in generic dampers (which is why I will never use them anymore). What strikes me as off though is even when I had discovered leaks in dampers before, ink does not leak out, it sucks air in. This part of the ink system is negative pressure and under vacuum so for ink to leak out of a damper, it would have to be a pretty big leak.

Edit to add - regardless..... I feel for you. Really sucky scenario to be in. Good luck!

Yes. we have saved a great deal over the past 15 years. Using the non-OEM Triangle ink alone is a major savings. I believe that a 440ml cartridge of Mimaki Ink is around $125 which equates to over $250 per liter (not to mention that you can only get about 90% of the ink out of the cartridge). The Triangle is under $70 per liter. We used over 10 liter bottles last week alone. So last week we saved almost $2,000 in ink. Without this savings we would not be able to compete with the large wholesale printers. I really appreciate your taking the time to respond! Your reminder of the benefits of DIY put this into proper perspective for me. Thanks so much! I am feeling much better.

By the way, this is my first purchase of a JV150. I have spent quite a bit of time getting it functioning. My feeling so far is that Mimaki has improved things compared to the JV33's. Seems much easier to pull a head. Seems the lack of brass connections with "o"rings should help us to maintain vaccum in the ink train. Has this been your experience? Seems a little difficult getting the dampers into the housing but I suspect it will help extend the life of heads as well as make for better quality printing.

 

[SightLine]

So far - yes I'd agree on the JV150. We are on our second one and had 3 JV33's in the past as well as a JV3. There are a few annoying quirks that I dont seem to remember the JV33 doing like if you release the vinyl clamp to take a roll off, if you do so when it does not want you to then it gives an error about the clamp, you just have to press a button and then its fine..... seems like certain things like that are a tiny bit slower but overall it does seem faster and easier to use overall. We also used to run Triangle but when we got the JV150 I got the OEM Mimaki MBIS III bulk system which uses 2 liter ink bags and we switched to Bordeaux inks. Been very happy with the Bordeaux inks as well. I have not run OEM inks in probably at least 15 years now.