Multiple cut passes using Onyx with Summa S2

[InkHead]

I just got Onyx Thrive and setup our new S80 and our Summa S2. I got the printing to work as well as cutting using the Summa barcode server. I'm coming from Flexi where I was able to do multiple cut passes just by toggling passes from 1 to 2, etc.. We use multiple passes for pop out decals instead of flex cut. So it would cut the decal twice and move to the next decal and cut twice and so on. Is there a way to change the cut pass number or will I have to create 2 cut lines in my illustrator file?

 

[Saturn]

I came from Flexi as well, and Onyx was a bit of a bummer in the "nitty-gritty" department.

I add the extra cut line in Illustrator, probably just like you're imagining. Everything I do is with the double or triple cut all the way through, except for sticker sheets, which is the only time I use Flex Cut so that I can incorporate a kiss cut as well.

 

[InkHead]

I came from Flexi as well, and Onyx was a bit of a bummer in the "nitty-gritty" department.

I add the extra cut line in Illustrator, probably just like you're imagining. Everything I do is with the double or triple cut all the way through, except for sticker sheets, which is the only time I use Flex Cut so that I can incorporate a kiss cut as well.

Thanks for confirming what I thought. That kind of stinks that we need to do the multiple pass by creating duplicating the cutline so it cuts twice.

So if you have kiss cut and "die cut" in the same file, you have to assign CutContour to Kiss and then use Flex Cut for the cut through/die cut? I hate flex cut lol

 

[Saturn]

So if you have kiss cut and "die cut" in the same file, you have to assign CutContour to Kiss and then use Flex Cut for the cut through/die cut? I hate flex cut lol

I also hate FlexCut, but yeah you described it exactly—Use your CutContour as the Kiss. That's the only way you can control the two cuts at the cutter, versus locking pressures in at the time of RIP. I don't use FlexCut for anything else, and am usually less than enthused by the speed or quality of it, but for just cutting the rectangles on something that's already slow and time-consuming (sticker sheets) it doesn't do too bad. It's that or do it fully manual as two passes in WinPlot.

There might be something I'm missing, but my only other bummer to using FlexCut is that it seems to want to choose it's own cut direction/sort path despite what other settings you have. So while I usually have ultimate control over how the cutter moves from one cut to the next, in the case of FlexCut I don't. Can't be a little scary for "through" cutting.

 

[InkHead]

I'm going to play around with it and see if I can use CutContour as the through cut and CutContourKiss as the kiss cut. I think I would have to put CutContourKiss above CutContour in Onyx and then set the pressure and speed in onyx. Should be similar to Flexi I would think. Will let you know how it turns out

 

[Saturn]

For sure you can. The problem I ran into was that if I set the pressure for the cuts in Onyx, which is the only way I found to do two unique cuts if one isn't specifically FlexCut, by the time I got to the cutter I'd inevitably want to add more or less pressure but couldn't, because they're locked in when you RIP it. Versus if you use just the default ContourCut and FlexCut (and tell it not to override the plotter) you can adjust both of those on the fly while cutting.

(A good example is if you have more than one cutter, or need to change the blade between when you RIP and when you cut, your pressures are not likely to be ideal on both machines or because a sheep blade uses less pressure than a dull one.)

I only recently gave FlexCut another shot specifically for cutting the outside rectangle of sticker sheets (or whatever) and was mostly pleasantly surprised. I get your trepidation though.

If you find a way to use something other than FlexCut, AND can adjust both at the cutter after it's been ripped, definitely come back and let us know.

 

[InkHead]

Ahh yes adjusting on the fly is definitely something I do too. We don't typically do a lot of kiss and through cut on the same job so maybe I'm just worrying a bit too much about it. I'll still play around and see if there is any type of work around.

I'm now dealing with the edges of my cuts being jagged/rough like the blade is pulling back the laminate or vinyl while it's cutting. Probably just need a new cutting strip or blade. You ever have that problem?

I have a graphtec fc9000 on the way so hopefully I'll get good comparison between the 2 cutters.

 

[Saturn]

First I'd check the blade tip to see if it's chipped or not. If it's not chipped you can get a surprisingly long life out of it, even when doing die-cuts, but ... I often chip 1-2 in the first day of use when trying to get a new one "set in". I can see why people could get frustrated real fast if they don't realize the blade is bad. I actually use a little $20 battery/led microscope from Amazon to check mine if it seems fishy.

Second, I'd play with the "origin" if it's a tangential. I can only get that adjustment right through trial and error, but if it's way off it'll do a fine sawtooth like cut instead of nice and clean.

 

[InkHead]

First I'd check the blade tip to see if it's chipped or not. If it's not chipped you can get a surprisingly long life out of it, even when doing die-cuts, but ... I often chip 1-2 in the first day of use when trying to get a new one "set in". I can see why people could get frustrated real fast if they don't realize the blade is bad. I actually use a little $20 battery/led microscope from Amazon to check mine if it seems fishy.

Second, I'd play with the "origin" if it's a tangential. I can only get that adjustment right through trial and error, but if it's way off it'll do a fine sawtooth like cut instead of nice and clean.

Thanks for the tips. I'll definitely check the blade first. Might need to get one of those microscopes. I don't think I've ever done anything with Origin so I will look into that too. Thanks

 

[Saturn]

My Origin is usually somewhere between -20 to +20. It can be very frustrating and sometimes elusive trying to find the sweet spot. The way the manual describes it doesn’t really seem to help me…

If you have the patience and want to test to see how Origin relates to your cuts, you can just make a little 1.5” circle and do row of cuts with a 5 point difference between them all—like -20, -15, -10, etc. Feeling the edges of the cut for roughness can tell you if you’re close. At least that’s my take on it. Would love to hear if there are other techniques people are using.

 

[InkHead]

My Origin is usually somewhere between -20 to +20. It can be very frustrating and sometimes elusive trying to find the sweet spot. The way the manual describes it doesn’t really seem to help me…

If you have the patience and want to test to see how Origin relates to your cuts, you can just make a little 1.5” circle and do row of cuts with a 5 point difference between them all—like -20, -15, -10, etc. Feeling the edges of the cut for roughness can tell you if you’re close. At least that’s my take on it. Would love to hear if there are other techniques people are using.

I didn't try the origin today but I did swap the blade with a new one. Cutting perfect now! The blade that was in was maybe a couple weeks old. I tried to look at it closely with the naked eye and couldn't see much. The tip may have been blunt a little but hard to tell. Even tried to take a pic and zoom in but didn't reveal to much as it got too blurry. Obviously something wasn't right. Never had a blade go bad that quick. I only use 60° blades too.

 

[Saturn]

It can be really frustrating to break blades so quickly, but I haven't found a way around it. I'll have one go two months and tens of thousands of stickers, and then when I go to replace it, I break two within the first day.... Depressing at $55+ each. I'm a fan of the OEM 45° ones (so eBay and CleanCut are kinda out) but thankfully I also get enough work to warrant the high cost of it as a consumable.

I also realize in hindsight how often I was probably fighting slightly chipped blades when I was learning the in's-and-out's of die-cutting, and why so many people throw up their hands in frustration.

It's high-anxiety time when I have full rolls and a fresh blade. I am checking the cuts like a hawk, but if it makes it a week then it will usually make it 1-2 months easy. If I was only cutting vinyl and not the backing paper I'm sure I could get a year out of one...