Oce Colorado 1640 Brittle Media

[Luke Handford]

Hi all,

We've had a Colorado for around 6 months now & when we first got the machine, it was amazing. I couldn't fault it!

However, in the past 2/3 months, we've been having issues with our media cracking & splitting upon application (mainly external application to glass windows).

I've tweaked the internal machine temperature & the curing lamp intensity, but the issue still persists.

If anyone has any information that could shine some light on why this issue is occurring, I'd be very appreciative!

 

[CL Visual]

We just had one installed. They told us upfront that brittle media is an issue. I have someone coming by to attempt a work around for it. I'll let you know if I have any success.

 

[Luke Handford]

Yes, we've also had people come to try help but we've had no luck. Hopefully, you'll get further!
Thanks

 

[Grizzly]

Well this is comforting... We are installing a Colorado next week. Hopefully they figure out the issue.

 

[Luke Handford]

I hope they do too!
what do you print mainly?

 

[Grizzly]

Here are the list of medias I sent them.
I guess we'll see how it goes.

https://csa.canon.com/online/wcm/co...do_1640_Media_Guide_4.30.18.W.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xfnrssy9dtj57z/Colorado1640_CertifMedia_9.4.18.W.pdf?dl=0


Adhesive Backed

3M 35C-10
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/575120O/ij35c-10-ij35c-20-sell-sheet.pdf

3M IJ180CV3
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...lm-ij180-ij180c-ij180cv3-product-bulletin.pdf
Not for vehicle wraps but for stickers and door graphics for flat surfaces.

General Formulations Concept 226 Wallmark
http://www.generalformulations.com/...ite/Low-Tack-Microsphere-Adhesive/Concept-226

Oracal Orajet 3621 Low Tac Removable Adhesive
https://www.orafol.com/tl_files/con...datasheets/americas/en/orajet/orajet-3621.pdf

Vinyl

Cooley Gloss/Matte Banner Material
https://cooleygroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/CoolFlex-Banner.pdf

Ultraflex SuperSmooth Grayback Vinyl
http://www.ultraflexx.com/wp-content/uploads/tech-sheets/SuperSmooth PET GreyBack - TDS.pdf

Magnetic

Magnum Magnetic UVTC
http://www.magnummagnetics.com/resources/file/PDF/sellsheets/DigiMagVINYL-UVTC.pdf

 

[Luke Handford]

If they're all certified medias that you plan on using you might not have any issues.
However, some of the products we use aren't 'approved medias'.
It's just a bit frustrating to have to be limited to an approved list.

 

[Jim Lattanzio]

They have a ton of media profiles for ONYX that are not listed on that pdf, go to
https://lfpp.csa.canon.com/filedown/filelist.asp?dirvar=914

Here are the list of medias I sent them.
I guess we'll see how it goes.

https://csa.canon.com/online/wcm/co...do_1640_Media_Guide_4.30.18.W.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2xfnrssy9dtj57z/Colorado1640_CertifMedia_9.4.18.W.pdf?dl=0


Adhesive Backed

3M 35C-10
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/575120O/ij35c-10-ij35c-20-sell-sheet.pdf

3M IJ180CV3
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...lm-ij180-ij180c-ij180cv3-product-bulletin.pdf
Not for vehicle wraps but for stickers and door graphics for flat surfaces.

General Formulations Concept 226 Wallmark
http://www.generalformulations.com/...ite/Low-Tack-Microsphere-Adhesive/Concept-226

Oracal Orajet 3621 Low Tac Removable Adhesive
https://www.orafol.com/tl_files/con...datasheets/americas/en/orajet/orajet-3621.pdf

Vinyl

Cooley Gloss/Matte Banner Material
https://cooleygroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/CoolFlex-Banner.pdf

Ultraflex SuperSmooth Grayback Vinyl
http://www.ultraflexx.com/wp-content/uploads/tech-sheets/SuperSmooth PET GreyBack - TDS.pdf

Magnetic

Magnum Magnetic UVTC
http://www.magnummagnetics.com/resources/file/PDF/sellsheets/DigiMagVINYL-UVTC.pdf

 

[Luke Handford]

Thank you Jim, although I'm aware of these pre profiled media's. We still have splitting with some of these medias too!
I think it may be just our machine (hopefully for the sake of anyone else who has a Colorado!)

 

[sti05808]

Thank you Jim, although I'm aware of these pre profiled media's. We still have splitting with some of these medias too!
I think it may be just our machine (hopefully for the sake of anyone else who has a Colorado!)

Same problem here, very poor adhesion and flexibility on almost all the medias throw at this thing. The only thing that seems reliable is IJ180 and paper. We have also tried styrene using canon's profiles and its not even printable. Styrene was purchased from canon as well, they have it in their sample book. Our trainer has told us styrene has issues, but yet its still published in the sample book and the website with profiles. I even managed to get ink peeling on some of the medias in their sample book.... In my opinion the "pre profiled" settings are just as experimental as what you do at your own shop. We have been working with canon help desk on this issue. Canon would send us modified or updated profiles for us to test. Same problems. They logged in and played with the print mode settings etc, all the things that you or I would do as per canon's troubleshooting steps in the manual. Same results, Canon has concluded that it is due to 3M's quality control on the IJ35 rolls and shifted blame to our supplier. The same roll prints perfect on our HP Latex... We are working with our supplier and Canon has gone silent on this issue lol.....

 

[Colorado owner]

All self adhesive vinyls will become more brittle using the Colorado platform. The ink cures hard as glass and change the vinyl and therefor it shatter easily. The only thing that does work is to work with thicker vinyls as their integrity become less compromised. We have been told that Canon/Oce is working on a new ink formulation that is more flexible but it may be that the ink is not the only issue as it could also be the curing method. Canon/Oce originally decided to be less than transparent about this and there were many months before they agreed that this was a major issue. There is no work around for this as even a laminated product is compromised. We have done extensive testing and for anything critical we are back onto eco solvent.

 

[Doug Pieper]

Hi all,

We've had a Colorado for around 6 months now & when we first got the machine, it was amazing. I couldn't fault it!

However, in the past 2/3 months, we've been having issues with our media cracking & splitting upon application (mainly external application to glass windows).

I've tweaked the internal machine temperature & the curing lamp intensity, but the issue still persists.

If anyone has any information that could shine some light on why this issue is occurring, I'd be very appreciative!

 

[Doug Pieper]

Hi Luke,I have had 1640 Colorado for 15 months. We were much involved with the beta testing of the version one and version 2 inks. Here are the facts, it does not matter what SAV you try to use you will still get cracking and brittleness. We have tried virtually every sav on the market. None work!!!

 

[White Haus]

Yikes, that's too bad. Hopefully they can come up with a new inkset that will work, otherwise this technology doesn't seem like it has much use based on these stories.

Good luck guys, hope you get this sorted out.

 

[White Haus]

Not sure if you guys saw this yet.... https://sdgmag.com/news/mactac-anno...pJobID=1500605084&spReportId=MTUwMDYwNTA4NAS2

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Hi Luke,I have had 1640 Colorado for 15 months. We were much involved with the beta testing of the version one and version 2 inks. Here are the facts, it does not matter what SAV you try to use you will still get cracking and brittleness. We have tried virtually every sav on the market. None work!!!

Did you test the new inks for the 1650?

 

[Luke Handford]

Did you test the new inks for the 1650?

We haven't had any new inks as of yet, we're still on the 356 inks...

 

[thomlov]

I had some print tests on colorado 1650, Avery 2004 SAV.
No bittleness as i could see, could stretch vinyl about 140-150% before the ink cracked. Quite good.

 

[zspace]

We tested IJ180 on the new 1650. We installed samples on a pick up and had no issues stretching it into the body channels with heat. Not really planning to do wraps with it, but we did want to see if it cracked like the 1640 samples did. Hoping that wasn’t a fluke since we had one delivered on Friday. I’ll post an update in a week or two.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

So a rep from Canon came in today. I guess they are finally allowing the 1650 inkset to be installed in the 1640s. You don't get Matte or print side in but you will get the flexibility and other benefits.

The price point he gave me is unbelievable and we are now looking hard at this a viable option for our vinyl printing. Trying to set up a onsite test.