Discussion Onyx processing files for printing and contour cutting

[hazartilirot]

Good day!

Well, I've found on the web site a file Adobe ONYX Summa Cutting Workflows 2017 v1.0s.pdf, having read it. However I've got a few questions.

1) Many manuals explain how to create a file (or paletter) in Adobe Illustrator, I personally work with CorelDraw. Even though I managed to work out how to create a spot colour for CutContour_kiss and CutControur_flex, one thing that is bothering me....

How can I export a PDF file with spot colours for "kiss" and "flex" contour cutting? I tried to export a file with different settings and I failed. It just doesn't give me to stand a chance.... The same file when I export in EPS works excellent!

2) What Port settings should I use for a easy workflow:

a) "Cut to folder" and select the folder I want Onyx Cut Server to place files to or
b) "Summa USB" ?

I expected if I print multiple task... I could then load any media into a plotter and begin to cut it..... I ticked "Automatically Cut New Files".... and Cut Server just places them into Archive.... Nothing happens (if the SummaUSB has been selected), however, I can retrive the task and select the right file to cut my media. I know exactly which I need since there is the description of a barcode printed under the line.
Why does Cut Server not constantly interrogate the device when a media is loaded? I thought all is needed from an operator is to place OPOS adove the first mark... that's it.... However, an operator does all work as he would work with WinPlot.

When I select Cut To Folder.... the Cut Server works more predictaly.... it stores files in the folder selected and all of them can be seen in the Barcode server in Summa Cutter Control. I use 4.20... and it glitches.... it began to cut, after three shapes it just stopped working without an error.... Dunno.... What I'm curious about is would all the tasks be stored there and the barcode server select all neccessory instructions (a particular file) according to the barcode it reads? As far as I undrestand it should first read the barcode, then get the instructions (the file)....

Thank you for any help!

 

[FrankW]

Can‘t help with CorelDraw, but perhaps there are some export options where the export of spot colours is disabled?

Port Settings: If you want to cut on demand, what means printing, put the print into the cutter and cut one after each other, you should select „Summa USB“. In this case, you should not select „cutting new files automatically“, this is just an automatism to forward a job. You need to click the cutting button below the preview, as soon as the plotter receives the cut file it will ask to place the job on the first marker, do that and it will start reading the markers and doing the contour cut.

The barcode only represents a numeric code which is the file name of the plot file. All commands like number, size and distances of the OPOS-Markers, and the coordinates of the contours, are stored in the plot file (it is clear text, you can see it when loading the plot file into a text editor).

I have no idea why your plotter stops cutting after 3 shapes, perhaps a communication problem? How long is your USB-cable?

 

[hazartilirot]

It stops cutting when I use Barcode server in Summa cutter control 4.20 though I haven't yet tried a newer version which is 5.7 I believe. As to Onyx Cut Server it works well...

 

[Emd2kick]

In Onyx thrive, you can go into cut settings and select what value/name a spot color is = what type of cut.

Crazy question, why not just call Onyx or summa? I see these types of questions on here a lot, and I always think “shouldn’t they just make a phone call?”

 

[hazartilirot]

In Onyx thrive, you can go into cut settings and select what value/name a spot color is = what type of cut.

Crazy question, why not just call Onyx or summa? I see these types of questions on here a lot, and I always think “shouldn’t they just make a phone call?”

Yes, I know.... this one is described in Adobe ONYX Summa Cutting Workflows 2017 v1.0s.pdf - thank to a man who's written the manual. I've got ProductionHouse - but assigning a colour to a function seems to be the same.

As for the second part of your question - well, I live in Ukraine and as far as I know Onyx doesn't have a representative in my country. Calling the US would cost me an arm and a leg. Anyway forums helps people a lot..... It is an excellent practice to bring it up now and again. The more answers are in forums the easier it would be found. I hope that Summa Cutter Control 5.7 would work like a charm and I won't bother you or any body here again.

 

[Emd2kick]

Yes, I know.... this one is described in Adobe ONYX Summa Cutting Workflows 2017 v1.0s.pdf - thank to a man who's written the manual. I've got ProductionHouse - but assigning a colour to a function seems to be the same.

As for the second part of your question - well, I live in Ukraine and as far as I know Onyx doesn't have a representative in my country. Calling the US would cost me an arm and a leg. Anyway forums helps people a lot..... It is an excellent practice to bring it up now and again. The more answers are in forums the easier it would be found. I hope that Summa Cutter Control 5.7 would work like a charm and I won't bother you or any body here again.

Thanks for the wink, but here’s there European contact information below. Now you can keep your arm and leg not be a bother again.

Europe-Middle East-Africa
Hours: 9:00 – 18:00 Central European Time
Phone: +31-10-4510300
Email: emeasupport@onyxgfx.com

 

[JHeard]

I use Illustrator, but I have called my dealer, Summa, and Onyx and none of them were able to get the barcode system working correctly. I gave up and just use the Summa plugin for OPOS XY Registration Marks and send my files through Summa Winplot. Just sucks that they advertise automation when it doesn't work as expected. If you get yours working let us know! Good luck!

 

[Emd2kick]

I use Illustrator, but I have called my dealer, Summa, and Onyx and none of them were able to get the barcode system working correctly. I gave up and just use the Summa plugin for OPOS XY Registration Marks and send my files through Summa Winplot. Just sucks that they advertise automation when it doesn't work as expected. If you get yours working let us know! Good luck!

What error do you get? Is what being cut laminated?
We had this issue and finally got it resolved with onsite tech.

 

[FrankW]

Depending on the Onyx-Version you have, if on your plotter OPOS-Panelling is activated, switch that off. This could lead to that a job is cancelled inbetween if the software don't write a correct EOF-command.

 

[JHeard]

I don't remember the exact errors, it's been about a year since I gave up on it. We tried several materials, laminated and not laminated, and troubleshooted for weeks. The automation never worked at all. If we did get the barcode to read (1 out of every ~5 attempts) it wouldn't move to the next job on its own. Also if it did read, the cuts were usually way off and didn't line up.

I had a tech on site multiple times and he said he didn't know why it wasn't working either and told me to watch for an update. Summa's customer service is a joke, long story and irrelevant. Since going through Winplot works every time I had no desire to waste any more energy on it until they update and fix their bugs that they claim they don't have... What ended up being the issue with yours?

 

[unclebun]

For the pdf export, change output colors to "Native". Do not check the box to export colors as CMYK.

 

[hazartilirot]

For the pdf export, change output colors to "Native". Do not check the box to export colors as CMYK.

I think it is better if you watch the video once.....

 

[hazartilirot]

I've just opened the PDF in Acrobat.... and CorelDraw seems to not include spot colors..... Hm......

 

[signman315]

The automated barcode setup is a little tricky but not that bad...

1.Set up your spot colors in your design software making sure they are named properly.
2.Set the "CutContour" setting when configuring your printer in ONYX (I can explain this in more detail if needed, but without this setting it won't work). You do not need to add anything for CutContour_kiss or CutContour_flex in the printer configuration. Those are added in the cut server.
3. Set the ONYX cut server to "automatically cut new files" and have it "cut to folder" create a folder that will house all cut files, if using FlexCut then there are some additional settings needed but if only using kiss cut you can leave the defaults alone. (I can walk anybody through this if necessary)
4. Print your job, selecting your cutter during preflight. This will automatically add the registration marks and barcode to the print.
5. Open Summa Cutter control and click the "Barcode Server" tab...in that tab there is a folder selection on the left side....set that to look at the same folder that you created when you set up "cut to folder" in ONYX cut server.
6. Load your material into the plotter, and in Summa Cutter Control under the bar code tab click "Start Barcode Server".
7. On the Summa itself click "actions" and then click the barcode symbol in the upper left of the display, it will then prompt you to place the tool under the barcode. Do that and click OK or start (I forget the exact terminology it uses).
8. It will then read the barcode, automatically search for the file in the folder selected, upon finding the file it will automatically cut the job. After that it will automatically look to read the next barcode, and it will find it in the folder, cut it and move on. Don't worry about rotation, it takes care of that on it's own by creating a unique barcode on each end of the job, whichever code it reads lets it know how it should be rotated.

There are a couple of quirks to be aware of. So since your barcodes will be of varying widths you need to read the first one by placing the tool towards the center of the roll....so that when it attempts to read the next barcode it will look for the barcode in the same position and if your next job isn't as wide of a barcode it will still find it.

Another quirk I've found is that if there are any marks or dark/light spots OUTSIDE of the barcode and registration marks then it could cause the machine to be unable to read the barcode. For example if you have a glossy vinyl and a matte laminate, and the laminate ran off resulting in a strip down the side of the roll that is glossy then the barcode reader will think that's where the barcode begins and attempt to read it in the wrong location. Typically the error for this is something like "unable to read barcode. Incorrect number of lines than expected" or something along those lines. The same issue happens if you had a head strike or ink get on the edge of the roll, this will confuse the barcode reader into the same error. Essentially the barcode reader is looking for a high contrast area and interprets that as the beginning of the code, so if it finds high contrast that isn't actually a barcode then it will error.

I regularly run 150' rolls fully automated, using the optional take up reel and almost never have any issues. Full rolls, cut, scored, and rolled onto the take up, it's beautiful. Once in awhile it will cut inaccurately on the first and last jobs, this is because of user error not leaving enough of a leader/trailer on the material or loading it wildly crooked. And that's easily avoidable, yes wastes a foot or two of material but completely worth it at that scale. I've used a bunch of different plotters and after using a Summa will never go back! Hope it helps

 

[unclebun]

I've just opened the PDF in Acrobat.... and CorelDraw seems to not include spot colors..... Hm......

This happens when you check the box in the pdf export to convert spot colors to CMYK. You need to have the colors correctly defined as spot colors in your layout, and then choose the dropdown box to export colors as "Native". Otherwise, even Pantone colors will get converted to CMYK.

 

[hazartilirot]

signman315 Wow! thank you for the answer! I will read it tomorrow....

This happens when you check the box in the pdf export to convert spot colors to CMYK. You need to have the colors correctly defined as spot colors in your layout, and then choose the dropdown box to export colors as "Native". Otherwise, even Pantone colors will get converted to CMYK.

Nope, everything I did was correct (almost). I've just managed to find a small mistake.... I selected CMYK 0/100/0/0 colour which has a name in CorelDraw - Magenta, I then renamed it to CutContour_kiss. I assume that there was a hidden conflict with colour parameters and names. I deleted the spot colour assigning the name to a new spot colour (CMYK 1/100/1/1 which hasn't had a name). It fixed the issue... Even if you save the file in CMYK colour space - it will work.) Thank you anyway.)

 

[Emd2kick]

I don't remember the exact errors, it's been about a year since I gave up on it. We tried several materials, laminated and not laminated, and troubleshooted for weeks. The automation never worked at all. If we did get the barcode to read (1 out of every ~5 attempts) it wouldn't move to the next job on its own. Also if it did read, the cuts were usually way off and didn't line up.

I had a tech on site multiple times and he said he didn't know why it wasn't working either and told me to watch for an update. Summa's customer service is a joke, long story and irrelevant. Since going through Winplot works every time I had no desire to waste any more energy on it until they update and fix their bugs that they claim they don't have... What ended up being the issue with yours?

So after finally getting it to work, it all of a sudden just stopped....turned out we needed to darken the barcode in onyx settings so the shitty camera could read it. Why all of sudden it needed that after running fine, I'll never know. But to your point, I'm not a big fan of summa.....exactly why I skipped there flatbed and bought a colex.

 

[hazartilirot]

7. On the Summa itself click "actions" and then click the barcode symbol in the upper left of the display, it will then prompt you to place the tool under the barcode. Do that and click OK or start (I forget the exact terminology it uses).
8. It will then read the barcode, automatically search for the file in the folder selected, upon finding the file it will automatically cut the job. After that it will automatically look to read the next barcode, and it will find it in the folder, cut it and move on. Don't worry about rotation, it takes care of that on it's own by creating a unique barcode on each end of the job, whichever code it reads lets it know how it should be rotated.

There are a couple of quirks to be aware of. So since your barcodes will be of varying widths you need to read the first one by placing the tool towards the center of the roll....so that when it attempts to read the next barcode it will look for the barcode in the same position and if your next job isn't as wide of a barcode it will still find it.

Another quirk I've found is that if there are any marks or dark/light spots OUTSIDE of the barcode and registration marks then it could cause the machine to be unable to read the barcode. For example if you have a glossy vinyl and a matte laminate, and the laminate ran off resulting in a strip down the side of the roll that is glossy then the barcode reader will think that's where the barcode begins and attempt to read it in the wrong location. Typically the error for this is something like "unable to read barcode. Incorrect number of lines than expected" or something along those lines. The same issue happens if you had a head strike or ink get on the edge of the roll, this will confuse the barcode reader into the same error. Essentially the barcode reader is looking for a high contrast area and interprets that as the beginning of the code, so if it finds high contrast that isn't actually a barcode then it will error.

Yes, it is mainly described in the manual. However I don't remember if I've done the 7th step. Nonetheless Summa D120R began to read a barcode and cut a task I'd sent..... but it failed at two last shapes. As for Cut Server.... when I manually retrieved the task from the archive and pressed "cut" - it cut the whole task. As for quirks - thank you!

 

[hazartilirot]

Eventually!!!!!!!!! Even though I've got CorelDraw x7 it has plenty of glitches.....

Despite the fact that changing CutContour's spot color from 0/100/0/0 to 1/100/1/1 solved the issue with exporting PDF.... there's appeared another bug. The spot color didn't inclue a name of the color, there was just numbers...... and consequently the Onyx didn't want to indentify my parameters for contour cutting...
I spent two hours or more.... thank goodness that one of developers of Corel has written the solution!

Make sure you are creating custom spot color correctly:

1. In your custom palette go to "Edit Color" command, the Palette Editor dialog will appear
2. Click "Add color" button, the Select Color dialog will appear
3. Select Models tab, define color values in whatever model you need ( e.g. CMYK 0 100 100 1)
4. Hit "Ok", you will get back to Palette Editor dialog.
5. At this moment you have new process (CMYK) color added to your palette with the name "C0 M100 Y100 K1" and components "C:0 M:100 Y:100 K:1".
6. Change the Name of the color to whatever name you need for your spot color, e.g. "CutContour"
7. Change Treat as: control from "Process" to "Spot"
8 Hit OK

It is critical to do first 6 then 7. The spot color in the palette is created the moment you flip Treat as: control to "Spot", because spot colors are defined inside of the palette, they can not exists on their own.

Most likely what you do is first 7, then 6. By doing this you are first creating spot color named "C0 M100 Y100 K1", which you immediately rename to "CutCountour" but its definition is already created and set to "C0 M100 Y100 K1". What you end up with is "C0 M100 Y100 K1" spot color with "CutContour" alias name. It is spot color definition name that is written into PDF, your cutter expects "CutCountour" but the name in PDF is "C0 M100 Y100 K1". How the cutter recognizes the cut line somewhat depends on the device and its driver, most devices with PostScript drivers are looking for particular spot color name ( e.g. "CutCountour") it does not matter how the spot color is defined (what palette values it has) - the LAb vs CMYK values are irrelevant then. Some other devices ( and ALL devices that use non-PostScript driver) rely on particular color values to trigger cutline ( you can not send spot colors to non-PS driver, all you can send is RGB).

As harryLondon mentioned we did have similar problem with EPS output, it has been fixed in 6.4. Unfortunately, not in PDF. Regardless of the output fix, however, the root issue here is the way one creates spot color - e.g. the CutCountour color from Roland VersWorks palette we ship would work both in PDF and EPS. You can either delete and recreate your custom spot color making sure you follow the steps outlined above, or you can edit the XML palette file directly ( follow the link provided by harryLondon above).

Gennady

It works! I hope it helps others to deal with the problem.)))))

 

[hazartilirot]

Well, I've encontoured a new problem. I cannot manage to force Summa to use a flex-cut feature..... When I assign a colour (0/100/100/0) to a rectangle and then load the file in WinPlot - it flexcuts the shape as expected. However, I don't know why the machine is cutting the layer instead of perforating it.
Here is the video of my settings
https://fex.net/167076465491

Or...... might I use a red spot color for flexcut?