Paint Systems

[Wesley Powell]

Happy Monday everyone!

Our company recently installed a paint booth to fully utilize our cnc router along with our laser to hopefully keep more work in house and offer more customized work to our clients. Our next step will be adding a paint system and didn't know if anyone had any experience or reviews with GSG's newer BESA paint based system? I know most people use Matthews, which we are leaning towards, but we have a meeting with a GSG rep this Friday and didn't know if anyone could share their experience with it before then. Thank you in advance!

 

[signbrad]

I don't know who GSG is.

Matthews Paint is owned by PPG. It is geared exclusively to cater to the sign industry rather than the architectural or automotive industries.
All Matthews' products are made for signs. They have one of the most extensive color-matching systems available online if you have a Matthews mixing station. You can get a mixing station that uses gallons or quarts, depending on your workload.
Matthews also has extensive resources available, including the 2-day painters schools and the exhaustive painter's manual, both of which are free if you have a mixing station. They will match any custom color for free if you send them a sample, but their online formula retrieval system is fast and includes formulas for scores of paint manufacturer colors, plus formulas to match Pantone numbers, CMYK splits and RGB values. I have found formulas to match roofing and siding manufacturer colors, as well as vinyl colors, acrylic colors, and even Dryvit colors. Getting a formula from the online retrieval system typically takes seconds.
Matthews makes primers for a wide range of substrates along with instructions for prepping. They make an excellent HDU primer/surfacer that dries fast and is sandable. Their acid-wash primers are great for raw steel and aluminum. They have a converter additive that can change any Matthews topcoat into a fast-drying, basecoat/clearcoat system, which has allowed me to apply as many as four colors to a project, with taping in between, all in one day.
Matthews now owns Spraylat, a maker of translucent paint for plastic faces in lighted signs, and they own One Shot, the lettering paint.

And, last but not least, at the 2-day paint schools, they feed you.

I sound like a Matthews rep.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[John Miller]

Matthews is our go-to paint. Brad is absolutely correct, and one thing he didn't mention is they also have a system where you can load a spray can with any mixed color. And you mix in catalyst that is in the spray can before you apply. A bit pricy but it's there if you need on site spray touch-up.

EZ Spray

www.matthewspaint.com

 

[rcali]

I used to be a finisher, I like both Matthews and lacquer (ML Campbell).

At the shop I was a finisher at: we had a lacquer color mixing station from ML Campbell, I could mix custom color matches on it in increments of 1/48th of an ounce of pigment. Good for toning millwork, creating custom colors that needed to be stronger than latex (we ran latex most of the time).

At the shop I am currently at, they have a Matthews system, but I am not part of the finishing department. So I can't really speak on its accessibility though I am sure that its nice to be able to mix in house since last I had experienced, Matthews had cut their deliveries down to once a week so it was becoming harder (when I was a finisher) to get good turn around on paint supplies.

Rules of thumb for the most part:

Lacquers are best for for woods/ wood based products can sometimes be used on metals if the proper primer is used, an work well on laminates
Matthews or auto urethanes are best for metals, can be used on wood based products if needed and have paints for acrylic substrates.

I think it all depends on what your substrates are, like, are you using metal more or wood more?

ps. I see a lot of finish failure on Matthews, so if you do go that route, the chemistry and timing are really really important.

Anyway, Brad is right. I also don't know GSG, and I am sorry if I added another variable of comparing by adding in ML Campbell. Best of luck!

 

[Wesley Powell]

I don't know who GSG is.

Matthews Paint is owned by PPG. It is geared exclusively to cater to the sign industry rather than the architectural or automotive industries.
All Matthews' products are made for signs. They have one of the most extensive color-matching systems available online if you have a Matthews mixing station. You can get a mixing station that uses gallons or quarts, depending on your workload.
Matthews also has extensive resources available, including the 2-day painters schools and the exhaustive painter's manual, both of which are free if you have a mixing station. They will match any custom color for free if you send them a sample, but their online formula retrieval system is fast and includes formulas for scores of paint manufacturer colors, plus formulas to match Pantone numbers, CMYK splits and RGB values. I have found formulas to match roofing and siding manufacturer colors, as well as vinyl colors, acrylic colors, and even Dryvit colors. Getting a formula from the online retrieval system typically takes seconds.
Matthews makes primers for a wide range of substrates along with instructions for prepping. They make an excellent HDU primer/surfacer that dries fast and is sandable. Their acid-wash primers are great for raw steel and aluminum. They have a converter additive that can change any Matthews topcoat into a fast-drying, basecoat/clearcoat system, which has allowed me to apply as many as four colors to a project, with taping in between, all in one day.
Matthews now owns Spraylat, a maker of translucent paint for plastic faces in lighted signs, and they own One Shot, the lettering paint.

And, last but not least, at the 2-day paint schools, they feed you.

I sound like a Matthews rep.

Brad in Kansas City

I greatly appreciate you sharing all your feedback and personal experience.

 

[Wesley Powell]

Matthews is our go-to paint. Brad is absolutely correct, and one thing he didn't mention is they also have a system where you can load a spray can with any mixed color. And you mix in catalyst that is in the spray can before you apply. A bit pricy but it's there if you need on site spray touch-up.

EZ Spray

www.matthewspaint.com

Thank you!

 

[JBurton]

I don't know who GSG is.

Really? Or was it the implication that they are a paint company that's throwing you. Graphic Solutions Group carries Matthews, and I guess this new system? We use Matthews with a weigh station, you can mix down to .1 grams if you have a steady hand. We often mix sample colors to match printed colors to in addition to pantone books, it's much easier to match a satin to satin or gloss to gloss when all you have are coated samples.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

We have 3 paint lines and would highly recommend going with a system that is geared towards your industry. The color database is different for each line so going with a brand geared to automotive may leave you lacking in pantone access. I don't know if Matthews offers a camera but the quality of these vary greatly between brands as well. Then you have to consider sheens, drying time, the ease of making small batches etc. The industrial line we mix dries super slow because it is designed for spraying large volumes where you need a paint that is open longer. Even loaded with accelerator, this would be a real burden in the sign world. We also took on an automotive line which is the opposite, dries quick for spot repairs which makes it terrible for overall jobs and the color matching is terrible.
From what I have read here, Matthews is the only way to go due to its color base that is geared towards the industry and reliable reduced gloss sheens. If you are getting a mixing bank, make sure you read your contract well. Ideally you want one that can be transferred to a different distributor in case things ever go south. Don't discount the time it takes to mix paint either, we still order pre-mixed for large jobs and factory pack kits for white, red and black.

 

[John Miller]

FYI Graphic Solutions doesn’t carry Matthews anymore.

 

[John Miller]

Try Glantz.

 

[NathanScott]

I used to be a finisher, I like both Matthews and lacquer (ML Campbell).

At the shop I was a finisher at: we had a lacquer color mixing station from ML Campbell, I could mix custom color matches on it in increments of 1/48th of an ounce of pigment. Good for toning millwork, creating custom colors that needed to be stronger than latex (we ran latex most of the time).

At the shop I am currently at, they have a Matthews system, but I am not part of the finishing department. So I can't really speak on its accessibility though I am sure that its nice to be able to mix in house since last I had experienced, Matthews had cut their deliveries down to once a week so it was becoming harder (when I was a finisher) to get good turn around on paint supplies.

Rules of thumb for the most part:

Lacquers are best for for woods/ wood based products can sometimes be used on metals if the proper primer is used, an work well on laminates
Matthews or auto urethanes are best for metals, can be used on wood based products if needed and have paints for acrylic substrates.

I think it all depends on what your substrates are, like, are you using metal more or wood more?

ps. I see a lot of finish failure on Matthews, so if you do go that route, the chemistry and timing are really really important.

Anyway, Brad is right. I also don't know GSG, and I am sorry if I added another variable of comparing by adding in ML Campbell. Best of luck!


While I don't have specific information on GSG's BESA paint system, it's commendable that your company is exploring options to enhance in-house capabilities. Before committing to any system, thoroughly evaluate its compatibility with your existing equipment, the range of finishes it offers, ease of use, maintenance requirements, and overall reliability. Given the industry's familiarity with Matthews, it may provide a safer choice unless the GSG system offers compelling advantages backed by positive user feedback. Utilize your meeting with the GSG representative to ask detailed questions, request case studies or testimonials, and even request a demonstration if possible, to make an informed decision aligned with your company's goals and requirements. Are you into gambling or trying to get into it in Manitoba? then we are in the same boat. A few days back, I was searching for some gambling sites, and I found one I got scammed then, casinosanalyzer https://casinosanalyzer.ca/online-casinos/manitoba saved me, I went through their page, and they have created a list of the best gaming sites in Manitoba. I've had unfortunate experiences with suspect online casinos before, but this review service has helped me avoid scams. It's essential for anyone who doesn't want to waste time or money.

Thanks for the info, I will keep it in my mind. I appreciate you for taking the time to write it.