I'm wanting to get a printer for doing small "baby" decals for labeling kids product etc. Had wondered about PC-600 because I can use 6 spots for single order unlike the gerber where I'd need to be changing my foils a lot. Is the PC-600 really that bad? Am I likely to have problems doing 80x20mm labels (lots of them)?
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Pc-600?
- Thread starter macw
- Start date
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
Pc 600
Some don't like the machine. But mine worked great for my needs at the time. Wish i would have kept it. The key to these units are to keep the unit and your media clean. For med - high print output , This is not a good unit . Print cost are to high to be completive. On any large prints the print quality and speed can't compare to ink-jets . But for short run small decals , It was a good unit for me. I replaced 1 head in 2 1/2 years. And that was do to a media jam. My fault . Heads run @ $500. Depending on output , the head should last 1-3 years with proper maintenance.
Some don't like the machine. But mine worked great for my needs at the time. Wish i would have kept it. The key to these units are to keep the unit and your media clean. For med - high print output , This is not a good unit . Print cost are to high to be completive. On any large prints the print quality and speed can't compare to ink-jets . But for short run small decals , It was a good unit for me. I replaced 1 head in 2 1/2 years. And that was do to a media jam. My fault . Heads run @ $500. Depending on output , the head should last 1-3 years with proper maintenance.
I've had a PC600 for a couple years now and agree with the above post. It does what I need it to do for the time being. Once I finally figured out the settings that worked best it has performed well. Like cinemasign said, keep everything clean! It's great for the small stuff. I've never had to replace the head or have it serviced and like the fact that it's a back-up cutter for my other Roland.
Thanks for the advice. I'm also researching solvent inkjet but I'm not sure if it will be strong enough. These labels get put in the dishwasher over and over etc. I'm looking into getting abrasion testing done for thermal, solvent and laser toner onto PET.
If I get the PC-600 I'd be using the machine only for small labels (aprox 80 x 20mm) but I would be doing quite a lot of them. I'd be mainly just using spot color and have noticed that you can now get 80m ribbon for as low as 3 euro.
I've read on the forum that heating the vinyl also helps. How is this done?
Thanks
If I get the PC-600 I'd be using the machine only for small labels (aprox 80 x 20mm) but I would be doing quite a lot of them. I'd be mainly just using spot color and have noticed that you can now get 80m ribbon for as low as 3 euro.
I've read on the forum that heating the vinyl also helps. How is this done?
Thanks
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
Thermal prints
Thermal prints are more durable than solvent , but either one will need lamination for high abrasion durability. Polyester films are not printable with ecosol.
Thermal prints are more durable than solvent , but either one will need lamination for high abrasion durability. Polyester films are not printable with ecosol.
If you are doing a lot of them and need to laminate, the ink jet is probably going to be your best bet. Our cost per sq foot on the PC 600 was 5-7.50 per sq foot and our cost on our ink jet is just under $1 laminated. If you are only talking 1000 decals a year then I would sub-contract it out and even if you are talking 1000 per month it may be cheaper to do .8" x 3.2" decals sub contracted out. You could get these durable deliverd pretty inexpensively.
You can print over 60 decals per sq. foot on a PC 600. Not sure the time and expense will save you much over just subing the job out? You should be able to get these for .1 to .2 cents each and if you do 1000 per month that is only 100 to 200 dollars. A 5000 dollar machine would take a while to pay for, and it would still cost you about .1 to .12 cents just for the media and print ribbons, not to mention time, cost of laminate which will double the cost up to about .2 each and machinery cost. Just a thought and my numbers may be off, I have not had or worked with a PC 600 in a couple years now. Good luck which ever way you go.
You can print over 60 decals per sq. foot on a PC 600. Not sure the time and expense will save you much over just subing the job out? You should be able to get these for .1 to .2 cents each and if you do 1000 per month that is only 100 to 200 dollars. A 5000 dollar machine would take a while to pay for, and it would still cost you about .1 to .12 cents just for the media and print ribbons, not to mention time, cost of laminate which will double the cost up to about .2 each and machinery cost. Just a thought and my numbers may be off, I have not had or worked with a PC 600 in a couple years now. Good luck which ever way you go.
vid
New Member
Weeeeellllllll, I use a PC600 at the day job. Admittedly, I don't know all that much about it. We only use it for printing CYMK stuff and a as a second plotter. There never seems to be enough time to sit down and figure it out.
We use it mostly for the one off stuff. It's great for graphics on illuminated signs --- where there's some distance between the viewer and the print. There's great density to the colors that beats most inkjets hands down. If we're having a good day and press all the right buttons, it can be great for smaller informational signs --- at 100% density on the colors.
However, there is one issue that grinds on me when I get finnicky. It is a banding that happens as the cartridge prints from row to row. The tape overlaps itself as it prints. It's most noticeable in the tints. It's just a wee bit of a darker line where the tints overlap. Buuuuut, I could be too fussy. Spot colors at 100% probably won't show that.
Also, I think it goes through the cartridges fairly quick --- a 10% tint uses as much ribbon as a 100%. That's the drain. I don't write the check, but it sure seems pricey to run. It's also gone through 2 heads in 2 years --- buuuuut it does actually push through quite a bit of work.
Before you buy, definitely try to get some printed samples with the art you want to print --- Heck, pay a couple of bucks to go through a first run of decals if you need to. That might also give you a pretty good idea where you might need to be in figuring the costs of your decals (Well, unless the PC600 is priced cheap nowdays)
As stated earlier, keep it clean and dust free.
That's the best $.02 I can offer --- geez, I'm feeling a touch guilty about that, too --- can I send ya a nickel to make up for the post?
vid
And, I don't know all that much about plastics, but does over the counter vinyl stick to PET? ...in the environment you're putting it through?
We use it mostly for the one off stuff. It's great for graphics on illuminated signs --- where there's some distance between the viewer and the print. There's great density to the colors that beats most inkjets hands down. If we're having a good day and press all the right buttons, it can be great for smaller informational signs --- at 100% density on the colors.
However, there is one issue that grinds on me when I get finnicky. It is a banding that happens as the cartridge prints from row to row. The tape overlaps itself as it prints. It's most noticeable in the tints. It's just a wee bit of a darker line where the tints overlap. Buuuuut, I could be too fussy. Spot colors at 100% probably won't show that.
Also, I think it goes through the cartridges fairly quick --- a 10% tint uses as much ribbon as a 100%. That's the drain. I don't write the check, but it sure seems pricey to run. It's also gone through 2 heads in 2 years --- buuuuut it does actually push through quite a bit of work.
Before you buy, definitely try to get some printed samples with the art you want to print --- Heck, pay a couple of bucks to go through a first run of decals if you need to. That might also give you a pretty good idea where you might need to be in figuring the costs of your decals (Well, unless the PC600 is priced cheap nowdays)
As stated earlier, keep it clean and dust free.
That's the best $.02 I can offer --- geez, I'm feeling a touch guilty about that, too --- can I send ya a nickel to make up for the post?
vid
And, I don't know all that much about plastics, but does over the counter vinyl stick to PET? ...in the environment you're putting it through?
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
Pc 600
One up for sale on the Roland forum yesterday.
One up for sale on the Roland forum yesterday.
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
PM me your contact info
And i'll post it for you. If you cant get on. Although i think you can view the post , you may not be able to reply.
And i'll post it for you. If you cant get on. Although i think you can view the post , you may not be able to reply.
I've emailed Roland and asked about joining the forum without a serial number. In the mean time I can't even see the posts. Just another querry. Is the PC-12 a far lighter weight machine (not good for any volume) compared to the PC-600. It has the ability to take sheets that have been removed or laminating and contour cut them. From what I can tell this can't be done on the 600.
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
Don't think any pre versacamm models have optical rec.
You would have to print reg marks. Then manually set base point. I used to use spray lame after print cut , then weed.
You would have to print reg marks. Then manually set base point. I used to use spray lame after print cut , then weed.
cinemasign.grafix
New Member
I would not use this method for multiple small run decals
To much room for drift and mat skew . If your alignment is of by
1/16" you blow a hole run, and with high print costs this can add up . I would spray lam or use clear coat ribbon. Or send cut to lam and apply manually. Why don't you buy a small run for testing. Just like anything else , test drive before you buy. Check signindustry.com one just came up there for sale.
To much room for drift and mat skew . If your alignment is of by
1/16" you blow a hole run, and with high print costs this can add up . I would spray lam or use clear coat ribbon. Or send cut to lam and apply manually. Why don't you buy a small run for testing. Just like anything else , test drive before you buy. Check signindustry.com one just came up there for sale.