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PDF Settings!

Hello All -

Just trying to find documentation online for the adobe PDF save setting under "Output" the option for Profile Inclusion Policy, "Include All Profiles" - I'm assuming that this setting includes all tagged RGB/CMYK/LAB/ETC. profiles, but for untagged or native elements does this assign the working color profile from color settings?

Other settings indicate they include tagged and assign RGB but leave native elements and untagged CMYK unassigned, but I want to make it so all elements in my PDF files have ICC profiles tagged/embedded, so I'm hoping someone can confirm that the Include All Profiles does do this.



Thanks!
 

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  • include all profiles.png
    include all profiles.png
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Asuma01

New Member
I use Corel Draw so I can only speak for how I export from that program. When preparing a pdf to send for large format digital printing.
I'll start with Document Distribution preset. Under the color tab I'll make sure that "Output colors as" is set to native. Check to make sure Embed color profiles is selected. This should be the usual sRGB, US Web Coated (SWOP), and Dot Gain 20%. Next under the objects tab I select compression type as LZW, I'll uncheck bitmap downsampling, check compress text and line art, check export all text as curves.

I avoid the x-1 and x-3 setting when exporting because it converts all your colors to cmyk. For offset printing this is ok (i think?) but for digital printing it's better to have rgb colors as your standard. I've never had problems with color reproduction using these settings.


 
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myront

CorelDRAW is best
I just went through the pdf settings in illustrator. No option to convert fonts? Is that something done manually or maybe by turning off "Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities"?
 

bannertime

Active Member
I just went through the pdf settings in illustrator. No option to convert fonts? Is that something done manually or maybe by turning off "Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities"?

I'm not exactly sure what that option does, but it doesn't do anything to the fonts. Will admit that it's pretty dumb. Nothing to automatically embed linked images or expand fonts.

But for OP, I'd just go through and make sure everything is same across the whole document before packing the file to send or print. Depending on your RIP you could confirm your theory by importing the file and looking through the colors. I know it's possible in Production Manager so I assume you can in others.
 

Asuma01

New Member
I convert fonts to avoid missing font errors. In Illustrator you have to do this manually I guess. convert to outlines I think it's called.
 

shoresigns

New Member
Just trying to find documentation online for the adobe PDF save setting under "Output" the option for Profile Inclusion Policy, "Include All Profiles" - I'm assuming that this setting includes all tagged RGB/CMYK/LAB/ETC. profiles, but for untagged or native elements does this assign the working color profile from color settings?
After you select a Profile Inclusion Policy, move your mouse over it and it'll show a description of exactly what it does.

I avoid the x-1 and x-3 setting when exporting because it converts all your colors to cmyk.
I believe x-4:2010 'fixes' that issue.
Only x-1 converts to CMYK. x-3 and x-4 allow RGB.

I just went through the pdf settings in illustrator. No option to convert fonts? Is that something done manually or maybe by turning off "Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities"?
PDF files have fonts embedded in them. There's no reason to convert to outlines because the outlines are in the font itself, embedded inside the PDF file. That's how PDF files work.

Nothing to automatically embed linked images
All content including images are normally embedded in a PDF exported from Illustrator. The only way to get a "linked" image in a PDF from Illustrator is to enable the "Preserve Illustrator Editing" option, which adds metadata to the PDF that allows you to open it as an Illustrator file. The images are still embedded in the PDF, but they'll appear as linked.

I convert fonts to avoid missing font errors. In Illustrator you have to do this manually I guess. convert to outlines I think it's called.
No, you don't have to convert to outlines in Illustrator. PDF files have fonts embedded in them, as mentioned above.
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
Been doing this for a long time. Embedding fonts is nothing but a pima. The only sure way to make a file print ready is to convert the fonts. I get pdf's all the time that I can't use because of missing fonts. I can import it with the option to convert fonts but most cases it fails to interpret properly whereby throwing in glyphs. I very rarely get a pdf file that's print ready. It's given with 1 dimensions but they want me to turn into another or they need a word corrected. Just about any kind of edit is a pia. If the fonts are converted I can at least pick it apart and reconfigure. A lot quicker than sending back and forth for them to fix. Fail safe method is to open in photoshop, flatten and save out as a tif. And for heaven's sake ask before throwing in crop marks. We don't use them here nor do we need any bleed.
 

Asuma01

New Member
No, you don't have to convert to outlines in Illustrator. PDF files have fonts embedded in them, as mentioned above.
That may be. Yet I get font importation errors all the time on pdfs I get from clients. IMO better to just outline the fonts manually and avoid the hassle of having to recreate a pdf when it inevitably throws a font error.

Only x-1 converts to CMYK. x-3 and x-4 allow RGB.
I just discovered that you are right. But I still have to go in and manually select "output colors as native" manually. It's still just another setting I have to change. With Document Distribution it defaults as native.
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Embedded fonts are not a problem if you use Adobe Illustrator. Just place the PDF in a new Illustrator document. Make sure the "link" box is checked in the place dialog box. Then use the "flatten transparency" function; it has a feature that will convert embedded fonts to outlines.

CorelDRAW still has issues importing PDFs, even version 2018.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Embedded fonts are not a problem if you use Adobe Illustrator. Just place the PDF in a new Illustrator document.

I have never had this work using Ai. Always get a font substitution message and I've tried various methods of opening the file (including the one mention above). No bueno. Bare in mind too, some of the licensing restrictions of fonts will prevent embedding in the PDF as well.

Now, on some files that didn't work in Ai, I did get some success with Evince and/or Okular, but even that wasn't 100%.

The only way that is 100% works every time is convert to outlines/strokes.
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
Embedded fonts are not a problem if you use Adobe Illustrator. Just place the PDF in a new Illustrator document. Make sure the "link" box is checked in the place dialog box. Then use the "flatten transparency" function; it has a feature that will convert embedded fonts to outlines.

CorelDRAW still has issues importing PDFs, even version 2018.

Tried placing file to new illustrator doc. Still doesn't look like it does in Acrobat Pro. Some elements are missing altogether. If I import to Corel I get the same result. I doubt this particular pdf has anything to do with fonts at all. See attached pdf. Client wants to know if file can be used to make an 18"h x 24"w sign.
 

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  • Welcome Sign 8x10 and 16x20.pdf
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GVP

New Member
If it's the part that says "Amanda's Baby Sprinkle" and the date, it appears that these are interactive form fields which could be causing you the issue. Don't know if it helps, but here's a copy including all the lettering
 

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  • Welcome Sign 8x10 and 16x20 TEST.pdf
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shoresigns

New Member
I have never had this work using Ai. Always get a font substitution message and I've tried various methods of opening the file (including the one mention above). No bueno.
If it's not working, you're doing it wrong. The font substitution message only comes up when you open a PDF file with embedded fonts, not when you place it into an already open document. Opening and placing are two different things in Illustrator. If you place it, it will render the fonts correctly just like Acrobat would, and if you need the font outlines, you can get them by using Flatten Transparency.

ALSO, the process I just described works just as well on AI files as it does on PDFs, assuming the designer didn't disable the PDF Compatibility option when they saved the AI file.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
If it's not working, you're doing it wrong. The font substitution message only comes up when you open a PDF file with embedded fonts, not when you place it into an already open document.

While I understand you couldn't assume that I know the difference between "opening" and "placing", I can assure you that I have done both ways and no it does not work in my experience.

I know it doesn't work on either one, because on certain situations (this doesn't work in every instance) I can run it in Evince or Okular (depending on the distro that I'm using at that particular computer) and I will get a different font. Sometimes I'm given a raster file for comparison as well.

I don't know if it's because they try to use fonts that have a block in embedding them into the PDF or if something else has gone on. I don't know about that, and honestly, I don't care. What I do know is that converting to outlines/curves precludes all of that, so it doesn't matter when it is done that way.
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
...Don't know if it helps, but here's a copy including all the lettering

I appreciate the effort but I wouldn't use your file either. Looks like a simple quick trace. Here's how I got the best results. First, for those who haven't actually looked at the pdf I attached, the file uses a form field to input names and I guess do some sort of document distribution whereby getting signatures and such. All I was looking to do is get those particular fields in a format I could work with and preferably vector. I don't care about the faux glitter raster background that they used to fill everything. I can do that too. Anyway...

1. Open pdf in Acrobat Pro
2. Go Document/Examine Document
3. Comes up saying Acrobat found these....click to remove all
4. hit remove
5. Do a Save as and boom!
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
WildWestDesigns said:
I have never had this work using Ai. Always get a font substitution message and I've tried various methods of opening the file (including the one mention above). No bueno. Bare in mind too, some of the licensing restrictions of fonts will prevent embedding in the PDF as well.

If you're getting font substitution messages chances are likely you're not importing the file correctly. You have to use the Place command, not File>Open. And when you place the document you must click the "link" box in the Place dialog box. Failure to do both results in font substitution warnings.

An interactive PDF with text in form fields will come into Illustrator with those form fields rendered blank. Any standard PDF with fonts embedded will place correctly. Some fonts do have permission bits that do not allow embedding. In those cases you'll typically see font substitution happen within Acrobat Reader when the document is opened on another computer that doesn't have those fonts.

Once a PDF has been properly placed into a new, blank Illustrator document then the Flatten Transparency command can be applied. In the Flatten Transparency dialog box a couple key settings need to be applied. First, change the raster/vector balance setting from 75 (default setting) to 100. Turn on the check mark for Convert All Text to Outlines. The rest of the options in the dialog box are optional. If the fonts are truly embedded in the PDF (they show up listed in the fonts tab within Adobe Reader or Acrobat DC) they will convert within Illustrator.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
If you're getting font substitution messages chances are likely you're not importing the file correctly. You have to use the Place command, not File>Open. And when you place the document you must click the "link" box in the Place dialog box. Failure to do both results in font substitution warnings.

Yet again, I do know the difference between "opening" and "placing" and every single time it switches the font. It doesn't give the messages as y'all point out. BUT it does still switch them. It does still do the substitution.

There could be a few reasons why that happens. Restrictions on the font used, compatibility turned off, hell, it could even be, because I'm using CS6 and most others are on CC (I'm speculating here, but I do also get the msg that I'm bringing in a newer file into a legacy program as well, no all the time, but more often then not as well).

Converting to curves/outlines makes all those possible issues moot. What I don't get, is why people would still suggest a method that has the potential for complication(s) versus a method that doesn't. I don't know of one exception to fonts converted to outlines/curves to which it would throw an error itself, at least in my experience.

Every time I get the msg when I try opening originally, I try the place and it still switches the font. I then try to bring it into Okular or Evince, sometimes that will work, sometimes it doesn't. Which tells me that when it does work in Okular and Evince, something is going on there, but it's not quite making it through to Ai. Which leads me to somewhat speculate about my still using CS6 versus everyone else on CC (at least those sending me files). Since Okular and Evince are just readers, I'm able to get the minimum that I need, which is a high res raster file (usually using Spectacle or gnome-screenshot) and continue on.

But yes, for a 2nd time, I do know the difference between "opening" and "placing". I would like to think that I mastered the difference long ago since I usually "place" my sketches in Ai and vectorize on top of my hand drawn designs (at least I used to until I switched OSs and Ai doesn't work natively in the new OS). But then again, what do I know.
 
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