Pricing to install signs post

[bigben]

About 95% of my outdoor sign installations using U-channel posts are mounted on concrete bases. I usually convince my clients to go that route because it avoids a lot of headaches. No need to apply for city permits or request utility locates/excavation info.

Right now, I’m working on a government bid that involves installing around 30 posts directly into the ground. Some locations are in grass, while others are on sidewalks. For the sidewalk locations, I could use square base plates with 4 anchors.

I’m a big Milwaukee fan and came across this video showing a tool that looks very interesting for this kind of work:

My question is: how much would you typically charge to install 30 posts using a tool similar to the one in the video?

I’m trying to figure out if this approach would be financially viable. I also have a few other similar projects that I may be bidding on soon, so buying the tool could pay for itself fairly quickly.

Thanks.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Number of posts or where / how they're being installed doesn't really matter to me. It's how much time I think it will take, including travel time @ $275/hr (+10% because it's easy to underestimate this kind of work, or +20% if I'm completely unfamiliar with the property). If power tools are required, I'll add extra for tool cost / maintenance / rentals.

I looked into the gas-powered units before, and a good one will run about $4k (Rhino Multi-Pro XA - with the U channel adapter and other "necessary" accessories. Note: I also considered this unit for its ability to drive 4x4 posts). Beware of the "cheap" units out there -- I watched many comparison videos -- the build quality, driving power and available accessories vary quite a bit. It's not a tool I would use all the time, and our local rental yards don't carry them -- so I opted for a 34lb post stomper.

https://www.amazon.com/MTB-Driver-Handle-Black-Pounder/dp/B07F7YBRHT/

Yes, it's heavy, but unlike those 16-18lb stompers (they won't fit U channels anyway), you only need to lift and drop. Are you installing lots of posts day in / day out? If not, buying a gas powered tool (while it sounds nice), isn't going to save you "that" much time. You still have to drag that heavy 53lb b*tch (+ fuel) out to each location and hoist it up on a 16lb post. You still need to measure, set up a ladder, check for level / rotation / post depth along the way. I'd say the biggest advantage to one of these units is being able to do the installs by yourself -- and with a little less fatigue. By comparison, the 34lb post stomper is lighter and will bury a heavy duty 16lb U channel post 3 feet in about 30 seconds. Not too shabby for a basic tool. Definitely helps to have someone holding / leveling the posts, of course. And you can swap positions every other hole to spread out the fatigue. (double entendre not intended, lol)

Hope that helps!

 

[JBurton]

$275/hr

Whoa, I don't even charge that for two men and a bucket truck. One guy and a pickup with a shovel here would be $100/hr. I guess I should look at raising my bucket truck rates...

 

[bigben]

Number of posts or where / how they're being installed doesn't really matter to me. It's how much time I think it will take, including travel time @ $275/hr (+10% because it's easy to underestimate this kind of work, or +20% if I'm completely unfamiliar with the property). If power tools are required, I'll add extra for tool cost / maintenance / rentals.

I looked into the gas-powered units before, and a good one will run about $4k (Rhino Multi-Pro XA - with the U channel adapter and other "necessary" accessories. Note: I also considered this unit for its ability to drive 4x4 posts). Beware of the "cheap" units out there -- I watched many comparison videos -- the build quality, driving power and available accessories vary quite a bit. It's not a tool I would use all the time, and our local rental yards don't carry them -- so I opted for a 34lb post stomper.

https://www.amazon.com/MTB-Driver-Handle-Black-Pounder/dp/B07F7YBRHT/

Yes, it's heavy, but unlike those 16-18lb stompers (they won't fit U channels anyway), you only need to lift and drop. Are you installing lots of posts day in / day out? If not, buying a gas powered tool (while it sounds nice), isn't going to save you "that" much time. You still have to drag that heavy 53lb b*tch (+ fuel) out to each location and hoist it up on a 16lb post. You still need to measure, set up a ladder, check for level / rotation / post depth along the way. I'd say the biggest advantage to one of these units is being able to do the installs by yourself -- and with a little less fatigue. By comparison, the 34lb post stomper is lighter and will bury a heavy duty 16lb U channel post 3 feet in about 30 seconds. Not too shabby for a basic tool. Definitely helps to have someone holding / leveling the posts, of course. And you can swap positions every other hole to spread out the fatigue. (double entendre not intended, lol)

Hope that helps!

Trust me, I've learned the hard way. First using a cheap pounder then a cheap gaz unit that was designed for t-post. So I will make my homework well before buying another tool. My top contenders are the Milwaukee MXF368-1XC (battery operated) or the Bosch BH2770VCD (will use my truck as a generator). I don't want to bother with gaz units and from the specifications I've read, my two contenders have similar or superior specs than gaz ones. I've asked chat gpt to see if it can find relative information about this and it told me to charge between 150$ ans 225$ per post (without calculating the travel time and other miscellaneous) depending of the type of ground. I'm wondering is that price seams realistic and true to the market. So this is why I'm looking for a general idea of pricing out there.

Whoa, I don't even charge that for two men and a bucket truck. One guy and a pickup with a shovel here would be $100/hr. I guess I should look at raising my bucket truck rates...

I'm located in Canada so we normally are more expensive, but I'm at 125$/h per man. Bucket truck itself is 100$/h.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Whoa, I don't even charge that for two men and a bucket truck. One guy and a pickup with a shovel here would be $100/hr. I guess I should look at raising my bucket truck rates...

I'm used to paying $275-350/hr (or higher on rare occasion) to 3rd party installers. I've shopped around over the years, farming lift work out to other sign companies, tree services, etc. Lowest price I ever paid was $175/hr + $50/employee to my friend's tree service. That was 10 years ago for a 1995 beater that leaked a quart per day (hydraulic fluid, not motor oil, so you had to keep raising the bucket back up every few minutes - lots of fun working over low hanging lines, lol -- but that's another story). These days it's pretty common to see $300+/hr. Not cheap.

For the first 3 months of owning a lift, I was charging $175/hr, -- and even that felt high. Just me and a tow behind. But at the end of the month, all my rent/utilities/insurance, etc. -- and considering my shop is closed when I'm out on install -- (remember, one man shop), that $175 wasn't going to cut it. So I ran the numbers many different ways, looking at bills I received from other shops, etc. I simply had to tack on another $100/hr., coming in just below the average price I used to pay other companies. Also worth mentioning, unless it's an out-of-state agency making a special request, I don't charge for (lift-required) site surveys. My invoices actually feel a lot more reasonable now, and I still win bids. (to be fair, I don't rake folks over the coals for the actual signs either -- I'm very reasonable on that front).

I've done the math. I think a lot of it is inflation, crazy utility rates and high property value in my area. The university and commercial investment firms own almost everything (and those firms only care about building apartment complexes). Rent is steep, and I pay about $1.2k/mo. for electric during the summer. Unless you want to work out of an old warehouse with no A/C in a run down industrial complex on the edge of town ($10/sq.ft.) -- chances are you're paying $12-15/sq.ft. -- or $18-20/sq.ft. for a "visible" location. The way I figure -- if over half my time is non-billable (consultations, writing up quotes, research, planning, etc -- and historically -- that's how things go here), it only leaves me 3 or 4 hours per day for production and install. That's not much time for "real" work. So if you're getting "me" on a job site for an install, you can bet I'm charging $275/hr., usually a 2 hour minimum. If I'm on a job site all day, I'll calculate at a lower rate ($225). I don't mention the hourly rate on my invoices -- it's just a total. Gone are the days of $175/hr + $1/mile. If that's too high for folks, I get it. And trust me, it sounds like a gravy train, but it's not. Perhaps it would be if I had 40hrs/week of pure lift work, but that's a pipe dream. I only average 15-20 hours per month in the air (at least for now) It would certainly be different if I didn't have so much overhead.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Follow up:

I guess I haven't really thought about it like "this" before (or at least haven't verbalized it) -- but for my biz -- when I'm out on install, labor is the ONLY source of income until I get back to the shop. So my numbers will naturally skew higher to cover shop overhead. On some days in-house production is the primary earner. Other days, it's only travel and installs. I'm sure the larger shops see things a little bit differently since they don't have to shut down in-house operations every time an install has to be done.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Trust me, I've learned the hard way. First using a cheap pounder then a cheap gaz unit that was designed for t-post. So I will make my homework well before buying another tool. My top contenders are the Milwaukee MXF368-1XC (battery operated) or the Bosch BH2770VCD (will use my truck as a generator). I don't want to bother with gaz units and from the specifications I've read, my two contenders have similar or superior specs than gaz ones. I've asked chat gpt to see if it can find relative information about this and it told me to charge between 150$ ans 225$ per post (without calculating the travel time and other miscellaneous) depending of the type of ground. I'm wondering is that price seams realistic and true to the market. So this is why I'm looking for a general idea of pricing out there.

I'm located in Canada so we normally are more expensive, but I'm at 125$/h per man. Bucket truck itself is 100$/h.

The "best" ones are hydraulic (but that's a whole different setup). Personally, I'd avoid electric units. Not that I have any experience with an electric post driver, but I'd expect the drive system and overall power to be rather limited compared to the HP of a gas engine. I looked up those 2 models you mentioned -- those are concrete demo rigs -- not post drivers, and there are no "post driving" adapters for them.

If I bought one of these, I'd be going for the same ones used by D.O.T. crews. I researched these things for several months before deciding this was the best option:

Check this out: https://rhinotool.com/product/multi-pro-cp/

 

[Moze]

Since you're a Milwaukee guy, I would recommend getting the Super Hawg and a 4" auger bit and just drilling your holes and setting the t-posts in a tiny concrete pier. That way you're guaranteed to get it plumb.

If you just hammer them in, it's much more difficult to maintain plumb. As soon as you hit a rock, it will skew the post and you typically can't get it back to plumb at that point.

The first method above is super easy. $500 for the tool and auger, better results and way quieter than banging them in.