Printer Recommendation Latex vs Solvent

[SignCal]

Hi, I've been making and installing vinyl cut signage on vehicles, Caravans-RV, shopfronts, for over ten years and have been sourcing all my digital prints.
I have now come to a stage where I need to add a printer to be more efficient and not rely on a third party.
Any advice and recommendation on the type of printer setup options that are available as well as the Pros & Cons would be appreciated.
Printer Brands, Latex vs Solvent, Printer/Cutter Combo or Printer with a separate cutter, Size 54 inch or 64 inch and also a Laminator.

 

[signheremd]

This is a can of worms as everyone has their favorite printer, but here is a bit for you:

Print and cut always sounds great up front. but the reality is that printers that can do both don't really cut well. A few years back we added Graphtec 9000-160 plotter and it increased our ability to print - by allowing the printer to continue to print instead of stopping, loading the laminated piece and cutting. So, if in your budget, add a good wide format plotter (like the Graphtec or a Summa).

Keeping the budget down, Mutoh and Roland Eco-Solvent printers are a great start. We use a Roland XR-640 and it has been a workhorse for about 8 years now. We do not have odor issues with this solvent printer, and the inks hold up well to natural UV light without fading. For long term signs and for wraps we do laminate with a good cast wrap laminate.

For better quality, Epson offers some great printers that will hit a wider range of colors.

For top quality and speed, the Cannon M series are great. But these are not a good choice for a small shop as they are a bit pricey unless you are printing in volume.

We use a Cut Work Table CWT1640 to cold laminate, mask, and even to apply vinyl to sign substrate (like acrylic faces, MDOs, ACM composite).

Some printers do put off an odor and you will want to see them in person before buying.

I am not a fan of Latex printers and there have been plenty of discussions about them on here you can look up. I am sure someone that loves theirs will post something, so will let them mention the positives and negatives.

In any printer choice, it is best to have your own job files to try printing. They differ in color spectrums as to matching colors. Usually greys, beiges, reds, and oranges are the hardest to match.

If your budget is low, buy a Mutoh or Roland print/cut machine.

If your budget allows, buy a Roland or Mutoh print/cut machine and a Graphtec FC series plotter. If your budget is a bit larger, get the Summa plotter instead.

An great setup for a small shop would be the Epson printer and either the Graphtec FC series or Summa plotter.

If you have a big budget get the Cannon M series and one of the two plotters.

 

[White Haus]

signheremd summed it up nicely.

This question gets asked on a daily basis - you'll probably find thousands of similar threads from over the years.

Things to keep in mind:
-Budget
-Intended application(s)
-Space available for said equipment
-Which dealer(s) can provide the best/fastest/closest support (because your equipment WILL break down at some point)
-Cost of consumables and how well said equipment can handle sitting lots at first while you figure out how to build up your volume

There are more things but that's what first comes to mind.

Personally, If I was starting over I'd get the following:

RIP: Onyx Thrive
Printer: Epson S60600
Cutter: Summa S3 160T
Laminator: GFP or GBC

Just guessing but that package would maybe run you $60-70k?

Food for thought. Good luck with your search.

 

[InkHead]

I agree with the above. We have Epsons s80600 and they are awesome and print quality is amazing. We are looking to add another Epson S60600.

Epson is running a deal right now for their print cut edition bundle. You get the s60600 and the Graphtec FC9000-140 for $16k+ add ink as they do not come with any. So you looking at around less than $18k. I think that's a great deal! Epsons come with a watered down version of Onyx which is fine. We didn't really like Onyx and use the subscription version of Flexi

I agree on the GFP laminator. We use the GFP as well. I think they are around $7k new.

All this for $25-30k new

 

[mbasch]

Another thing to consider is startup time. If you are swapping materials a lot, a latex is much slower to start since it has to wait on the heat and requires a lot more leader than a solvent. Another thing to consider is piezo vs thermal heads. I haven't used a latex other than HP and the HP have thermal heads. My experience is that the color on thermal heads tends to "drift" more over time than a piezo head. Since thermal head degrade over time, the color is more apt to change. That said, piezo heads tend to clog more easily and are not user swappable. The other side of that is that thermal heads can be swapped by you. If a head goes bad, you aren't shut down. You simply pop in a new head. With a piezo, you have to do a service call (unless you are very technical and brave). That could lead you shut down for a couple of days. I used to have an Epson and it would literally brick your printer if you were passed your "scheduled" maintenance package.

I agree with signhermd, print/cut sounds good, but it ties up the printer while you cut. You can print a heck of lot faster than you can cut so if you have a lot of printing, keep the cutting on an independent device. The worst would be finding out you need a quick reprint and having to wait for a half hour while the cutter finishes up. I think print/cut is great for small volume.

In my experience, the HP is the most reliable and easy to operate but they use a lot of heat which can be problematic on some materials. In addition, the ink will wipe off with alcohol or if it isn't cured properly.

Mimaki printers are work horses but can be a bit quirky. We have always had issues trying to run multiple Mimaki's at the same time on the same Onxy RIP. They are quick to start which we love and only require a few inches of leader. Your success with Mimaki depends on your dealer. Mimaki doesn't support printers directly so if your dealer doesn't have a good tech, your in trouble.

The Epson has a great color gamut. We had the 10 color surecolor with the Ultrachrome inks with orange white and silver. Silver & white clogged constantly. Even though they sold it at the time as a "wrap" printer, the orange would fade in 6 months. We learned that the hard way, when we did a bright orange wrap only to have to redo it within a year. One of the main reasons we bought it was color gamut for wallpaper. Although the color was great, we couldn't get 2 panels the same length to save our lives and I am talking about a print could be off by an inch over 8' and yes we calibrated it constantly and it didn't seem to matter the material. The silver was a disaster. It would just rub off on your fingers. Our experience at the time with service was less than stellar since they spent a few months trying to help us fix it and then just gave up and said the printer was "performing in spec, good luck". Take this with a grain of salt since I bought my Epson in 2014 and this was only my personal experience. I still don't know if I had a lemon or it just wasn't a great model of their printers. Either way, I am sure they have worked out some of the kinks since they have multiple endorsements here. I know folks who have Epsons and LOVE them. Epson is definitely a industry innovator and they make a great print head.

For cutters, we have both a Graphtec and a Summa. They are both solid choices, but I had to choose, I'd go with Summa. We have had very few problems with our machine which is not over 10 years old. Their support has been great.

As Whitehaus, mentioned, a good dealer who will support you is critical to your decision.

Again, just my 2 cents...

 

[TMPSigns]

Hi, I've been making and installing vinyl cut signage on vehicles, Caravans-RV, shopfronts, for over ten years and have been sourcing all my digital prints.
I have now come to a stage where I need to add a printer to be more efficient and not rely on a third party.
Any advice and recommendation on the type of printer setup options that are available as well as the Pros & Cons would be appreciated.
Printer Brands, Latex vs Solvent, Printer/Cutter Combo or Printer with a separate cutter, Size 54 inch or 64 inch and also a Laminator.

Hi! I highly recommend the GrachTec for your plotter and Royal Sovereign with the take up reel. I have the mutoh eco solvent printer, it works great but I have issues here and there. I clean it regularly but I wish I spent the extra money and got HP Latex.

 

[RabidOne]

Have to agree with what has been said.
I would emphasize that local service for whatever you buy is paramount. We had a couple of Arizona flatbeds and our service tech was fantastic.
The few times we had problems he was there same day. He would drop by before he went on holidays and make sure everything was running fine.
Where I am now I would be leery of Canon stuff because there is no local service. If I was down it would be days not hours.
And your equipment will break down.

 

[BigNate]

first, I agree with a lot of the posts - I personally run an HP 700W and Graphtec FC9000 - they are awesome. I have read some really bad horror stories about the HP 700 - but I have not had any trouble after the initial install. The solvent printers were a non-starter as I was told we cannot have them in a school environment.

If solvents hit your nose wrong, the latex is very low smell - and it does not seem to have problems with a week or 2 downtime when we are on vacation. (again, I have read horror stories of print heads drying out when not in use on the solvent machines.)

I know there are advocates for all types of printing - but you need to figure out what fits in your world. Be aware that you can type in any model of printed and find good stories as well as bad ones. Having a good dealer or technician and a maintenance contract is much more important than what brand or type of device (assuming it can produce your work.)

one last thing, if using latex and then laminating, you can turn off the overcoat on the HP and the prints can be laminated right after printing - no need to let it sit to off-gas for a day or 2....

 

[SignCal]

Thanks all for your time and effort for giving me your personal opinions and apologies for the delayed response!
I'm in Australia the land down under and unfortunately the cost of a printer setup is about twice as much as where you guys are from.
Anyways the popular brands here are mainly HP, Mimaki and Roland and at this stage I've looked at the Mimaki CJV300Plus series solvent printer and the HP 365 latex.
There is also the all new HP 630 & 630W which will apparently be due to arrive in Australia late January 2024.
What are your thoughts in regards to these models of printers?

 

[ddarlak]

I have run HP latex printers since 2011 and I would highly recommend latex. I currently have two HP 315 units, sometimes they run for days, sometimes they sit for weeks. They do not have issues with lengthy inactivity and are super reliable. I ran solvent machines before this and can say switching to latex was the best thing for my shop. You cannot beat plugging in a new head for $155 and being down for the 10 minutes or so it takes to get printer back up and running. There is almost zero maintenance on these machines. I debated on the HP 365 but in the end the 315 has been good for me.

 

[somcalmetim]

Was going to add a 63" Graphtec to my Roland VG540 but they were having a sale on Roland VG640s...They quoted me over $12,000 for a 63" graphtec plotter but had Roland VG640s on special for under $20,000CAD tax included so now I have two Print and Cut solvent machines...they work great, no cutting problems other than scheduling print/cut and I have also used graphtecs...