Printing on Translucent

[FastsignsofHuntsville]

Hello, we recently installed a backlit acrylic panel into a cabinet sign. My customer is not happy with the way it looks at night. The background which is suppose to be black, appears grey. The orange logo looks almost yellow. What can we do to fix this? Last resort I will just order the vinyl from Indy Imaging, but I would prefer to keep it inhouse if possible. We print with a HP 365 Latex, the material we printed on is the Briteline Translucent Printable Vinyl Film.

 

[unclebun]

Get some clear vinyl. Print the exact same file in reverse on the clear. Install it on the backside of the acrylic panel in register with the image on the front.

In the future you will find it easier to put the clear layer on the front first, then the translucent on top of it. If you print it to an exact size, say 1/4" or 3/8" inset around the acrylic panel and trim them exactly to size, it's easy to register them.

 

[crashaffinity]

Get some clear vinyl. Print the exact same file in reverse on the clear. Install it on the backside of the acrylic panel in register with the image on the front.

In the future you will find it easier to put the clear layer on the front first, then the translucent on top of it. If you print it to an exact size, say 1/4" or 3/8" inset around the acrylic panel and trim them exactly to size, it's easy to register them.

that's exactly how i was taught to do backlits years ago

 

[bdw99]

I'm not sure if the 360 works in the same way as the 570 but if you are able to download print profiles there is a good translucent one.. It will over saturate all of the colors for you. It'll look a lot darker than it should coming off the printer but when it lights up it will be accurate.

 

[Superior_Adam]

I'm not sure if the 360 works in the same way as the 570 but if you are able to download print profiles there is a good translucent one.. It will over saturate all of the colors for you. It'll look a lot darker than it should coming off the printer but when it lights up it will be accurate.

Problem with doing that is in the daytime the colors are off.

 

[Superior_Adam]

We are lucky enough to be able to print the Color/White/Color. The back print is at a 50% color as it is not seen. the front print looks good in the daytime and the layered print makes it not wash out when the lights are on.

 

[unclebun]

Problem with doing that is in the daytime the colors are off.

Exactly. And in reality a lit sign is seen by a lot more people unlit during the day.

 

[balstestrat]

Did you even print it with a proper backlit profile?

 

[unclebun]

There's no such thing as a proper backlit profile. Backlit profiles all overink the print, which is not proper because the colors are darkened too much for daytime viewing.

 

[balstestrat]

There's no such thing as a proper backlit profile. Backlit profiles all overink the print, which is not proper because the colors are darkened too much for daytime viewing.

Yeah of course. But at least he could try to make it look better in case it was done with frontlit profile. The complaint was about the backlit use anyway.
Day&night would be the proper profile but I know he can't do it.

I think the black could be better. What does it matter if it looks extra black during the day?

 

[Boudica]

I always ask if the lights are on day and night, and how bright they are in determining whether or not to double strike.

 

[JBurton]

I always ask if the lights are on day and night, and how bright they are in determining whether or not to double strike.

I always print a sample, apply to a piece of lexan, slide it into a mini cabinet, and burn it for them. Typically it's 2 logos, both on clear, one has two layers. They always pick the double layered print, even when you point out that it's extra dark during the day.
On my hp 560, 20 passes, 120% ink density, 2 layers, it'll make about 90% opaque black.

 

[balstestrat]

I always print a sample, apply to a piece of lexan, slide it into a mini cabinet, and burn it for them. Typically it's 2 logos, both on clear, one has two layers. They always pick the double layered print, even when you point out that it's extra dark during the day.
On my hp 560, 20 passes, 120% ink density, 2 layers, it'll make about 90% opaque black.

I have to ask why don't you use backlit profile as well? Do you print it twice?

 

[Boudica]

There's no such thing as a proper backlit profile. Backlit profiles all overink the print, which is not proper because the colors are darkened too much for daytime viewing.

Yes there is, and if the lights are on during the day it's best practice. It's only a problem when they only have the lights on at night - and for a sign, It's just dumb to not have them on all the time.

 

[JBurton]

I have to ask why don't you use backlit profile as well? Do you print it twice?

I use either arlon 4500g or arlon 6000rp, both in clear, both run off the same base profile from arlon for 4500, so it is a backlit profile, unless there is an extra setting outside of color calibration, I missed it.
Yes, we print it twice. I think the customer having a chance to compare one to two layers, pretty well turns them onto the two layers and they never look back.
I've only skipped this step a handful of times, for very 'local' (small) businesses, and every time they have objected to the color printed. I'll then have to run a series of different colors, typically at that point with no double layer, and then it's a wild game of pin the tail on the pms that we'll never hit.

 

[balstestrat]

I use either arlon 4500g or arlon 6000rp, both in clear, both run off the same base profile from arlon for 4500, so it is a backlit profile, unless there is an extra setting outside of color calibration, I missed it.
Yes, we print it twice. I think the customer having a chance to compare one to two layers, pretty well turns them onto the two layers and they never look back.
I've only skipped this step a handful of times, for very 'local' (small) businesses, and every time they have objected to the color printed. I'll then have to run a series of different colors, typically at that point with no double layer, and then it's a wild game of pin the tail on the pms that we'll never hit.

Im just asking because you should be able to print something like 20p200% with one pass (I didn't check specifics). Just easier that way.
If you just check some Generic Backlits you see what I mean.

 

[Boudica]

If you use Versa Works, there is an option to doublestrike (overprint) 1, 2 or 3 times. You don't even need a specific profile. Can't imagine why one would need to overprint 3x, but it's there. In Onyx I just use the backlit profile if I want a double strike.
On our UV flatbed (asanti RIP), for a while I was printing C+50%W+C for backlits. It was working out great, until we realized the laminate was lifting the ink off the backlit film - so we went back to printing backlit film on the eco solvent printer(s)

All that said - if the customer does not want the colors in their sign to be washed out - it needs heavier ink (print twice, double strike, CWC... whatever)

 

[unclebun]

Yes there is, and if the lights are on during the day it's best practice. It's only a problem when they only have the lights on at night - and for a sign, It's just dumb to not have them on all the time.

I guess everyone around here is dumb. I've been doing signs for over 30 years, and everybody puts signs either on a timer or uses a photocell. With timers they often have the sign turn off at 2 am or something like that. You know, save money on electricity. Or reduce carbon outputs. Whatever.

 

[Grizzly]

We print Color/White/Color for Day/Night viewing.

 

[DL Signs]

Three basic options to get both lit & unlit colors close.

1) Color/ white/ color if you have white capability, do rich black on both color layers to make it opaque as possible. The white ink layer keeps the top color correct, when lit the light passes through both color layers so it's less washed out. Most economical for good results, but if you don't have the white ink option it's mute.

2) Printed translucent on face, reverse printed clear on the back side of the face. Like the color/ white/ color print option this gives double ink coverage when lit, single when not lit, the white sign face in between separates them. Good option if you can't print white, but more printing/ materials/ laying, and both sides need to align or they'll look blurry. The most costly option, just bid it right.

3) For just solid colors you can go the cut vinyl route. Lay opaque black with letters cut out wherever you have verbiage or other elements you want to show when lit, then lay translucent vinyl cut with 1/16" or so overlap. For simple designs, this is still my go-to, translucent colored vinyl is made just for this, colors hold up lit or not. This will give the best colors unlit & lit, plus the best block-out with the black. Close labor-wise, and way cheaper material-wise than number 2.

I do the cut vinyl route whenever I can JUST because the colors will be the most accurate, and that makes customers happy.