Need Help Problem Solving Skeeels Needed

[JTBoh]

Alright -
So, about 6 months ago, customer contacted us with a very specific set of requirements for his sign.

The building that it is going on is going to be painted black.

Daytime view, he wants it to be white, with green trim and some black lettering for contrast.

Nightime view, he wants everything to be green. I came up with the blockout/perf system, and specced RGB LEDs so he can make it orange during halloween/etc.

We designed a plan, confirmed it's viability with one of our normal suppliers for fabricated signs, had it quoted (as shown), and submitted an estimate. Customer (several months late) called this week and wants to get it going. They are now in a holding pattern.

Called original fabricator, and they now say that it can't be done as shown, and that they would need to substitute the specced perforated metal with perf vinyl. It's a south facing elevation in Florida, and I don't want it rotting in 2 years.

In my head, this would work... has a diffuser layer, perforated metal, painted color of choice (black/green), and a blockout layer. The two visible layers would definitely work during daytime, and the diffuser behind the perf layer should allow whatever color RGB LEDs that we have behind it to shine through the holes in the perf layer at night in whatever color we wish... or so I thought. Light transmittence through a diffuser would still be enough to illuminate through the perf, in my opinion... but maybe I'm wrong.

Called a second fabricator and they say they can't build it as specced, either.

Am I simply wrong? Does anyone have any experience with metal perf-faced signs? Will this work, like the first guy told me it would when I got the original quote?

WIIIIIDE open to suggestions at this point.

Diagram shown.

 

[JTBoh]

Bump.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I don;t have much experience with this, but I'm confused what the perforated material is for, could this not be done completly as a digital billboard type sign?

 

[henryz]

Does the customer want metal perf or is that to prolong the life of the face vs using perf vinyl? I think your idea is doable and will work. I think the fab is trying to get out of making retainers for the letters and just using trimcap. They have thin aluminum perf you can use for the faces.

 

[henryz]

I think your section detail might be confusing a bit, you have your retainer first, then your painted white perf metal not vinyl followed by the white acrylic in front of your rgb leds.

 

[JTBoh]

I think your section detail might be confusing a bit, you have your retainer first, then your painted white perf metal not vinyl followed by the white acrylic in front of your rgb leds.

From the rear, it's LEDs> diffuser ACR> perf metal> routed blockout material (thin alum). Perf metal would show through the routed areas, and allow light from behind to be cast through the holes.

I think the fab is trying to get out of making retainers for the letters and just using trimcap.

I think you're probably right - but if we use a thin diffuser and a thin perforated metal, I think that the thickness would still be accommodated by the trimcap. The blockout never actually touches the trimcap, since it has borders all around. The support for the blockout comes from the ACR/perf metal which is in turn held by the trimcap.

I talked with them more today and they basically said that in 30 years no one has done something like this... so I'm chalking it up to being gun shy.

Does the customer want metal perf or is that to prolong the life of the face vs using perf vinyl?

My biggest concern is light transmittance - and getting the right perforation for the project. Might have to give in and accept 3m day/nite perf. I specced metal because it would work, and it's a south facing elevation in Florida. Guy is paying a pretty penny for this - I want it to last.

 

[JTBoh]

I don;t have much experience with this, but I'm confused what the perforated material is for, could this not be done completely as a digital billboard type sign?

Black perforated vinyl is usually used on channel letters against a light background. At night, the illumination turns them whatever color the LED's are.

The challenge here is that it is a black building, and I have to use white for daytime contrast, and green at night per the customer's spec. I came up with the system... unfortunately the town we're is bass ackwards and doesn't allow EMCs yet.

Redirect Notice

 

[GaSouthpaw]

Maybe I'm not thinking enough, but why not build it normally (with white acrylic faces) and use green LEDs? Or is that not the green they want?
Alternately, 3M Dual Color White on milky white acrylic with green LEDS (which would allow more of the LEDs' green to come through).

 

[NateF]

I guess I don't understand either why the perf is needed. Can't you just use a white face, and then light it at night with green LEDs? Seems like that would solve the problem

 

[JTBoh]

RGB LEDs allow customer to change the color for holidays, etc. and will let him choose the color green to use in order to get a accurate PMS match for his green. Functionality over cost in this case.

Sign is 14'-6".

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

RGB LEDs allow customer to change the color for holidays, etc. and will let him choose the color green to use in order to get a accurate PMS match for his green. Functionality over cost in this case.

Sign is 14'-6".

Huh? So is that the answer? What?

 

[Rick]

I think the reason they are thinking it may not work is the stroke on the lower letters are pretty thin. I think the letters scales out to be only 4 3/4" High? In theory, the green (or orange) light will go though (using RGB LED's). But the combination of thin/small letters using perf metal and white background? I'm thinking you need to get more realistic on your night rendering - you are going to have ambient light so the white background will not totally black out. To guarantee the letters will pop, try push through so you get the edges lit up in case the perf faces aren't letting enough light out to get the accurate green.

I have designed quite a few oddball signs for theme parks - but I would think this would need to be physically mocked up to make sure it would work as designed.

 

[Pitzu]

There's also Plexiglas Dual Color or Perspex Secret Sign...for the black letters...but the real challenge is to achieve the same shade of green as the white letters at nighttime

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Even if its a black building, it may look fine having the bottom section black background, white text...then you could make the text green with the LEDs at night. That white background just looks odd to me. Make the "A" in their logo glow green instead of black with green outline.