PVC free adhesive films

Bly

Member
I knew this was coming.
With all the recent talk of climate change large companies are going to want to display their eco friendly intentions.
A fair percentage of our work is wall graphics and window markings for a major bank.
We've just had a request for "Compliance demonstrated via BEP PVC certificate or MSDS/product data sheet confirming no PVC" products.
So has anyone been down this road before?
I've emailed all my suppliers but thought some of you might already know.
These guys won't mind paying a premium to look eco friendly.
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
Yup! Avery, Arlon, 3M, and Orafol all have options. The easiest and lowest cost is 3M 48c + 8048/50, Orafol has some TPU products that are much more durable and actually exhibit self-healing properties.
 
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Reactions: Bly

ikarasu

Active Member
Ij48c with 8048 is great for wall wraps/floor decals/ etc.

Ij480/8528 is great for vehicle wraps.

I'm only.familiar with 3m brands... But we use them a lot with no failures.
 

visual800

Member
Just keep using what your using and tell them your using another product. Didnt we go thru this a few years back on another issue? Everyone fussing about this drives gas cars and drinks out of styrofoam cups. Who id asking for this an architect?
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
Just keep using what your using and tell them your using another product. Didnt we go thru this a few years back on another issue? Everyone fussing about this drives gas cars and drinks out of styrofoam cups. Who id asking for this an architect?
First Bly operates in a different country, and second we just went through this on a job where the client asked for material data sheets and had the sample materials tested. It's not worth substitution, risking penalties if the contract is that way.
 

Bly

Member
Just keep using what your using and tell them your using another product. Didnt we go thru this a few years back on another issue? Everyone fussing about this drives gas cars and drinks out of styrofoam cups. Who id asking for this an architect?

The work is for our biggest bank and they are desperate for some positive press after a royal commission uncovered gross misconduct.
Every job is inspected and defects issued for the slightest imperfection.
If we were found to be falsifying materials used there would be all sorts of penalties as well as losing the main signage contractor their contract.
As I said they don't mind paying top dollar for quality work so I'd rather do it properly.
Like it or not the world is moving towards environmentally products so it might be in your interest to pay attention.
We already offer several recycled/recyclable sheet options.
 

iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
I’ve already emailed my work email to remind myself to look at environmentally friendly options on Monday lol. Companies (especially larger ones) will love that sort of press. We just got a huge contract so gonna suggest we look into this.

I do worry about the planets reliance on burning old dinosaurs. They will run out. What’s powering all those electric cars anyway?

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unclebun

Active Member
I don't think that avoiding petroleum based products is the reason PVC plastics are specified. The non-PVC graphics films are polyurethanes, which ultimately start with toluene or benzene, both derived from crude oil.

This is apparently the list of reasons why PVC products are being avoided (mandated in some Scandinavian countries and apparently also the EU requires hospitals, clinics, and dentist offices to avoid PVC.

1. Hazardous production

2. Environmental racism

3. Toxic additives

4. Catastrophic accidents

5. Terrorist targets

6. Dangerous cargo

7. No safe use

8. Unsafe disposal

9. Problematic recycling

10. Safer cost-effective alternatives are widely available

Discarding the numbers 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, which seem a bit off-base to me, the primary concern seems to be that since manufacture of PVC involves a chlorinating process, there can be release of dioxins, which can end up in the environment. These dioxins can also be released when the plastic is disposed, either by its decomposition in the ground (despite our having been told that plastic lasts forever in landfills back in the 70's), or burning. PVC is not easy to recycle. And there can be other things in it, such as phthalates, which are plasticizers, or cadmium, which is toxic.

Polyurethanes are not free of health problems, primarily in the release of isocyanates, which cause lung problems, and exacerbate asthma and migraines. Also, toluene and benzene, used in their manufacture, are extremely hazardous and carcinogenic, and cyanide is also toxic. However, from the green movement standpoint, it would appear that the primary reason they believe polyurethane to be so perfect is that it is more easily recyclable.

That said, graphic films with adhesive are not recyclable because of the adhesive. And many polyurethanes also contain phthalate plasticizers, especially if they need to have flexibility and stretchability.
 

Reveal1

Member
I don't think that avoiding petroleum based products is the reason PVC plastics are specified. The non-PVC graphics films are polyurethanes, which ultimately start with toluene or benzene, both derived from crude oil...

Thanks Unclebun for a reasonable and well thought out reply. Personally, I think the enviro-push is largely over the top and loose with the facts (such as the recent plastic straw hype), so good to see a rational analysis stated.
 

visual800

Member
The work is for our biggest bank and they are desperate for some positive press after a royal commission uncovered gross misconduct.
Every job is inspected and defects issued for the slightest imperfection.
If we were found to be falsifying materials used there would be all sorts of penalties as well as losing the main signage contractor their contract.
As I said they don't mind paying top dollar for quality work so I'd rather do it properly.
Like it or not the world is moving towards environmentally products so it might be in your interest to pay attention.
We already offer several recycled/recyclable sheet options.

OH! I had no idea you were overseas. I hope it doesnt get that bad over here. There was a post a couple years back on here and someone wanted all eco friendly materials but were shocked at the price. Hence my smart comment
 

iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
Anyone got a % on how much dearer these films are comparatively to regular vinyls? Just before I phone my supplier tomorrow and have a mild heart attack
 

Bly

Member
OH! I had no idea you were overseas. I hope it doesnt get that bad over here. There was a post a couple years back on here and someone wanted all eco friendly materials but were shocked at the price. Hence my smart comment

All good. We're having a bad bushfire season here (Australia) at the moment so climate change is getting big press.
Corporations all want to appear environmentally responsible so there will be much more of this coming.
I want to have some answers when people ask for a greener option.

Anyone got a % on how much dearer these films are comparatively to regular vinyls? Just before I phone my supplier tomorrow and have a mild heart attack

I'm still waiting for sales reps to get back to me so not sure just yet.
It's kinda weird hardly any of them are offering many pvc free options.

So far it seems to be 3M, Oracal and Hexis with anything really.
 
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iPrintStuff

Prints stuff
We’re pretty much fully orafol when it comes to SAV so we should be fine based on the ones I’ve found so far. Though there doesn’t appear to be a lot of offerings. Looks like it’s pretty much the 3174 and the 3981 (I.e. cheap calendared or premium cast). I wonder how long the apparent 10 year life will actually be with the Colorado inks
 

ikarasu

Active Member
Anyone got a % on how much dearer these films are comparatively to regular vinyls? Just before I phone my supplier tomorrow and have a mild heart attack

IJ48 is about 20% higher than IJ40 in canada -

480 is about 15% more than 180.

It's not much more at all... I actually consider them better material, Since it's not plastic... I find the 48/8048 version doesnt shrink at all where as 8508 does.
 

TimToad

Active Member
IJ48 is about 20% higher than IJ40 in canada -

480 is about 15% more than 180.

It's not much more at all... I actually consider them better material, Since it's not plastic... I find the 48/8048 version doesnt shrink at all where as 8508 does.

There's also that whole "my entire country is an inferno and a billion animals have died" thing to consider. Or that PVC is a known carcinogen.
 

Christian @ 2CT Media

Active Member
There's also that whole "my entire country is an inferno and a billion animals have died" thing to consider. Or that PVC is a known carcinogen.
Seriously, you have a ridiculous mindset. I hate to say this to you as I know you will refute it, but your presence is killing this world as much as any other factor... Every time you point the finger of blame, you have 3 pointing back at you.
 

unclebun

Active Member
IJ48 is about 20% higher than IJ40 in canada -

480 is about 15% more than 180.

It's not much more at all... I actually consider them better material, Since it's not plastic... I find the 48/8048 version doesnt shrink at all where as 8508 does.

It's still plastic. Just a different one.
 

TimToad

Active Member
Seriously, you have a ridiculous mindset. I hate to say this to you as I know you will refute it, but your presence is killing this world as much as any other factor... Every time you point the finger of blame, you have 3 pointing back at you.

Bly is located in Australia. What exactly is happening in Australia right now? MILLIONS and MILLIONS of acres of land is on fire. That qualifies as an inferno where I come from.

What is ridiculous is the irony of a signmaker in AUSTRALIA whose biggest industry and largest export is COAL decrying climate change as his country burns up.

PVC is a known carcinogen. You can insult me all you like, but every word I spoke is true.

I can also guarantee that my carbon footprint is infinitely lower than yours.
 
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