Reflective Vinyl

[Melissa Harvey]

Hi Everyone, I have a customer that wants his logo stretching across the doors of all his work vehicles. I used 3m 780mC white. The idea is that his vehicles are white and you don't really see his logo until it is reflecting light. Anyway, I used the 780 just contour cut without laminate and it has areas after weeding that pop up and when I apply the tape I can smooth it out but when it was on the vehicle it shows the line where that happened. And also when I applied it I was smoothing it out and there is an area that is dark. Anyone else use this vinyl or have any suggestions what I should do? Thanks!

 

[Behrmon]

Technically 780 isn’t meant to be contour cut and applied with face tape. We use it a bit for reflective wraps. For that application I’d likely use 680 or Orafol 5600 I think it is?

 

[Melissa Harvey]

Technically 780 isn’t meant to be contour cut and applied with face tape. We use it a bit for reflective wraps. For that application I’d likely use 680 or Orafol 5600 I think it is?

I get my prints and larger cuts through a wholesale printer and I wish they would have told me this. I appreciate the reply!

 

[litewave]

I would look at the technical bulletin and try and save the job.

Maybe you can contact 3m technical department and consider heating lightly and then using an edge sealer.

The spec sheet does suggest it's a "wrap reflective" and the curves on that car dont seem too extreme.

Surface preparation is usually key as is application temperature etc.

 

[ikarasu]

We use 780 a lot. We do tons of police graphics with it, from full wraps to a lot of cut graphics on them. It can be used for cut graphics just as good as 680. 780 is a bit more stretchable/conformable, and it bruises less than 680.

It's hard to tell from the pic... but I'm going to guess you're getting bruising. 680/780 liner doesn't like premask since it's bubble free.... If you're using regular premask with a bunch of intricate cuts like that... My guess is the premask is tunneling when you move it around creating an air gap. Then when you put it on the vehicle it likely has a big air gap under it (What you saw as lifting) and when you press it down that is whats causing the bruising.

The fact that its in 2 lines going vertical... I'm going to guess thats what happened. You can solve it by using a premask thats meant for air free vinyl, if you're rolling the vinyl up.. roll it with the graphics on the outside. Reflective is tricky and needs a lot of experience to make sure theres no bruising.

Another option would be to buy 680 non CR/bubble free and wet apply it. Less chance of bruising that way, and its a simple enough design/curves that you should be ok with wet apply.

 

[litewave]

ikarasu I presume the bruising happens when you pressurise the reflective layer too much.

If this is bruising, is the job not saveable?

Also could the applicator be a bit rigid / aggressive, especially considering no face liner used.

 

[ikarasu]

You can get some bruising out with heat... but it usually just lessens it, it doesn't get rid of it. It happens for a few reasons, if you lift the reflective after it's been on the car it'll bruise for sure.. it's very sensitive. If you stretch it certain ways, or "shrink" it by getting a big crease out it'll also cause a bruise.

This guys technique is garbage... and he doesn't really say much. But in the video you can see a lot of spots with bruising, and he does kind of say how to avoid it. About halfway through he shows you a big section with bruising in it, you can see it looks like OP's bruising (A lot worst since it's a colored vinyl so it shows up easier).

 

[Melissa Harvey]

We use 780 a lot. We do tons of police graphics with it, from full wraps to a lot of cut graphics on them. It can be used for cut graphics just as good as 680. 780 is a bit more stretchable/conformable, and it bruises less than 680.

It's hard to tell from the pic... but I'm going to guess you're getting bruising. 680/780 liner doesn't like premask since it's bubble free.... If you're using regular premask with a bunch of intricate cuts like that... My guess is the premask is tunneling when you move it around creating an air gap. Then when you put it on the vehicle it likely has a big air gap under it (What you saw as lifting) and when you press it down that is whats causing the bruising.

The fact that its in 2 lines going vertical... I'm going to guess thats what happened. You can solve it by using a premask thats meant for air free vinyl, if you're rolling the vinyl up.. roll it with the graphics on the outside. Reflective is tricky and needs a lot of experience to make sure theres no bruising.

Another option would be to buy 680 non CR/bubble free and wet apply it. Less chance of bruising that way, and its a simple enough design/curves that you should be ok with wet apply.

Yes, I used regular masking tape. I'll make sure my wholesaler rolls the graphic facing out. I could use 680 and wet apply it doesn't have any difficult curves. The client wanted the reactive to be as white as possible and the 780 fit that need. Things to think about... thank you!

 

[Melissa Harvey]

You can get some bruising out with heat... but it usually just lessens it, it doesn't get rid of it. It happens for a few reasons, if you lift the reflective after it's been on the car it'll bruise for sure.. it's very sensitive. If you stretch it certain ways, or "shrink" it by getting a big crease out it'll also cause a bruise.

This guys technique is garbage... and he doesn't really say much. But in the video you can see a lot of spots with bruising, and he does kind of say how to avoid it. About halfway through he shows you a big section with bruising in it, you can see it looks like OP's bruising (A lot worst since it's a colored vinyl so it shows up easier).

So I used 680 non CR does it also bruise? Might be a dumb question I guess because if you are using that you will wet apply and not need to heat and stretch so you won't be breaking that metallic fleck.

 

[MP Custom]

You can get some bruising out with heat... but it usually just lessens it, it doesn't get rid of it. It happens for a few reasons, if you lift the reflective after it's been on the car it'll bruise for sure.. it's very sensitive. If you stretch it certain ways, or "shrink" it by getting a big crease out it'll also cause a bruise.

This guys technique is garbage... and he doesn't really say much. But in the video you can see a lot of spots with bruising, and he does kind of say how to avoid it. About halfway through he shows you a big section with bruising in it, you can see it looks like OP's bruising (A lot worst since it's a colored vinyl so it shows up easier).

That was a pretty useless video from 3M tho

 

[unclebun]

All reflective vinyls advise against wet application. If the damage did not occur from shipping/handling, and was from application, it happens from bending the vinyl back too hard while peeling off the liner, or from trying to lift the vinyl and reapplying it.

 

[ikarasu]

All reflective vinyls advise against wet application. If the damage did not occur from shipping/handling, and was from application, it happens from bending the vinyl back too hard while peeling off the liner, or from trying to lift the vinyl and reapplying it.

Does it say that anywhere? Curious because In our 3m course they actually suggested doing reflective stripes wet app to prevent any bruising. The only.time they advised against wet app is if it's a air egress vinyl. We do lots.of 3290/3271 cut graphics as wet apply and never have a problem.

 

[unclebun]

Does it say that anywhere? Curious because In our 3m course they actually suggested doing reflective stripes wet app to prevent any bruising. The only.time they advised against wet app is if it's a air egress vinyl. We do lots.of 3290/3271 cut graphics as wet apply and never have a problem.

Check the upper right corner of the data sheet:
https://cdn.grimco.com/Pdf/Home/Vie...REMIUMREFLECTIVE/datasheet/V4000DataSheet.pdf
Page 4 of this one (I think):
https://cdn.grimco.com/Pdf/Home/Vie...ectiveGraphicFilm/datasheet/680Scotchlite.pdf

That was what I found in a 2 minute search. You are also correct about no wet application with air egress. There are innumerable varieties of reflective vinyl now. It's possible some can be wet applied. But in my years of doing signs, it's been most common for reflective vinyl to have a warning against wet application.

 

[Melissa Harvey]

All reflective vinyls advise against wet application. If the damage did not occur from shipping/handling, and was from application, it happens from bending the vinyl back too hard while peeling off the liner, or from trying to lift the vinyl and reapplying it.

Thanks for the message... The vinyl was popping up off the backing and making channels. The lines after install are where this happened. I didn't get any lines where I peeled off the liner. I did on one area lift and heat and that is where It has the dark bruising. Now I know what not to do thanks to you all.