New Product Researching solvent printers for our canvas printing business.

[Dan Berg]

We have finally had enough of printing 50 canvases laying them around to dry for a day then spraying them and laying them around for another day so we are looking at the Epson S80600. Problem, it is way more printer then we need, in excess of 20k is the biggie.
We are running 3 44" printers. One P8000 for dye sub. Our 9900 for matte canvas and a HPz3200 for photo papers. The widest canvas we usually do is 36" occasionally going up to 42" All photographs on canvas, nothing else. A 54" machine would be more then enough but I was talked out of looking at the Roland by a friend. We do B&W on canvas plus a lot of landscapes and artists reproduction and really want to get away from the wasted time issue with spraying. Can the new solvent printers put out a product that will hold up without a topcoat or laminate? What 8 or 9 color solvent printer should we be considering?
The Epson S80600 is 19K + warranty and inks puts it in the 25K range. I am a small one man shop and that is a choke number.
Dan Berg
Berg's Canvas Gallery

 

[BigfishDM]

I would consider getting some of your files printed off of a HP Latex 115 and the Epsons (The 115's are under $8k) The Latex ink is some of the most durable inks you can get.

 

[ColorCrest]

Epson S80600. Problem, it is way more printer then we need, in excess of 20k is the biggie

Does the Epson S80600 at $20K pencil-out with the work you're already doing? Could it pencil-out if the machine vastly expands your capacity and capability? (Because the machine will likely do that.)

By all means compare the print quality to any other option you can find. Try the Onyx RIP evaluation files and / or the Epson technician's file (which you probably already have).

Otherwise, consider a liquid laminator such as StarLam for your current setup.

 

[Dan Berg]

Does the Epson S80600 at $20K pencil-out with the work you're already doing? Could it pencil-out if the machine vastly expands your capacity and capability? (Because the machine will likely do that.)

By all means compare the print quality to any other option you can find. Try the Onyx RIP evaluation files and / or the Epson technician's file (which you probably already have).

Otherwise, consider a liquid laminator such as StarLam for your current setup.

The 25k does not come close to penciling out. One of the reasons I would like to find a smaller machine but with the big inkset.
I print for quite a few really fussy artisans and photographers. Need the best of the best. Fair amount of B&W too. Cannot see getting great B&W prints out of a CMYK printer.
Would like to retire our spray booth and laminator. Actually the biggest reason we are looking at solvent is to go straight from print to mount.

 

[ColorCrest]

The 25k does not come close to penciling out. One of the reasons I would like to find a smaller machine but with the big inkset.
I print for quite a few really fussy artisans and photographers. Need the best of the best. Fair amount of B&W too. Cannot see getting great B&W prints out of a CMYK printer.
Would like to retire our spray booth and laminator. Actually the biggest reason we are looking at solvent is to go straight from print to mount.

You don't mention how long you've been producing the type of work you describe but I am guessing you could have used at least one Epson GS6000 and, by this time, you would have already been into the S80600 without question. The greater capacity and capability would had vastly expanded your market.

Do you have your own ICC profiling hardware & software? Are you familiar with RIP software and workflow other than raster files?

 

[Dan Berg]

You don't mention how long you've been producing the type of work you describe but I am guessing you could have used at least one Epson GS6000 and, by this time, you would have already been into the S80600 without question. The greater capacity and capability would had vastly expanded your market.

Do you have your own ICC profiling hardware & software? Are you familiar with RIP software and workflow other than raster files?

Little history. We are in our 11th year of business. Canvas, fine art paper printing mounting and framing for the artisan and photography communities.
In addition we sell dye sublimation metal prints. Presently running an Epson 9900 for matte canvas. An Epson P8000 converted to dye sublimation and an HP z3200 for photo paper prints. A 3880 and P800 for smaller prints.
We have gone through 2 Epson's already, a 7900 and 7890. The 9900 had the head replaced 2 years ago and it is 9 years old so getting a little long in the tooth. Not a high volume print shop by any means so a 64" 20k+ printer is just more than necessary. We do enough large jobs that pigment printing, drying and then spraying and drying is killing us.

All printing through Lightroom with no rip experience.
I do have the i1 Photo Pro and of course the Hp has a built in spectro.

 

[iPrintStuff]

Sounds like you may be better served with a latex. Especially if you’re already used to profiling your own media on HP’s already. Latex are renowned for their scratch resistance compared to solvent. Gamut should be fit for purpose too.

We had a demo on a Colorado 1650 last month and the canvas (Matt or gloss finish) looked great. I think that’s a bit further out of your price range though lol.

 

[Dan Berg]

Sounds like you may be better served with a latex. Especially if you’re already used to profiling your own media on HP’s already. Latex are renowned for their scratch resistance compared to solvent. Gamut should be fit for purpose too.

We had a demo on a Colorado 1650 last month and the canvas (Matt or gloss finish) looked great. I think that’s a bit further out of your price range though lol.

Do you think I could get decent black and white prints from the HP inset?

 

[ColorCrest]

Sounds like you may be better served with a latex.

I doubt the picoliter size is sufficient for the OP's client expectations. However, comparison is easy enough.

 

[BigfishDM]

Do you think I could get decent black and white prints from the HP inset?

Yes, if you just send me some files I can at least try to PROVE it to you.

 

[ColorCrest]

All printing through Lightroom with no rip experience.

You'll be expecting a learning curve but you already know many of the basics which seem lost to others. Once learned however, you can gain some of your time of life back because the RIP will be much more efficient.

I do have the i1 Photo Pro and of course the Hp has a built in spectro.

You'll be wanting to upgrade this to drive all your printers with Onyx eventually. You'll get full control with an Epson printer but HP, not so much. Not to hammer HP, it's just where we are today.

Your market is not the sign market regardless of crossover. If your timing would have been a 2 or 3 years ago you might have found a used GS6000 with enough life left for you to make the transition. Not likely nowadays. Your niche is already using the S80600 and even tiny photo labs have it.

Yes, it's a leap.

 

[Bly]

Sounds like you may be better served with a latex. Especially if you’re already used to profiling your own media on HP’s already. Latex are renowned for their scratch resistance compared to solvent. Gamut should be fit for purpose too.

We had a demo on a Colorado 1650 last month and the canvas (Matt or gloss finish) looked great. I think that’s a bit further out of your price range though lol.

A latex would be perfect for art canvases.
We did the occasional canvas with our 360s and the print quality, gamut and scratch resistance were perfectly acceptable.

 

[Robert M]

The Mimaki JV150-130 (54") is available at 10K. Eight color. Comes with RIP and free inks.

 

[greysquirrel]

Dan...look to buy a reseller's demo s80...it will come with full warranty and ink in printer. Usually discounted to move. You are in PA..call diversified display out of hillside nj...ask for Damian...they have one available.

 

[Dan Berg]

Dan...look to buy a reseller's demo s80...it will come with full warranty and ink in printer. Usually discounted to move. You are in PA..call diversified display out of hillside nj...ask for Damian...they have one available.

Thanks will do.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

All I've done this week is print and stretch 40" x 60" canvases on our S80600.
I cannot fault the printer for being used for this sort of printing. B&W is perfect (when profiled correctly), gamut is nearing aqueous levels and resolution is excellent.
Not having to coat the prints saves an absolute tonne of time. The inks are ridiculously difficult to scratch off the canvas we use (virtually identical to a coated aqueous print in toughness).
We print our canvases in 8 pass which is good middle ground. 12 pass you can't see any difference and just end up using more ink and taking longer, 6 pass can occasionally lead to banding in light blue areas.
Get some samples printed... I doubt you'll find a much better competitor.

 

[ams]

We have finally had enough of printing 50 canvases laying them around to dry for a day then spraying them and laying them around for another day so we are looking at the Epson S80600. Problem, it is way more printer then we need, in excess of 20k is the biggie.
We are running 3 44" printers. One P8000 for dye sub. Our 9900 for matte canvas and a HPz3200 for photo papers. The widest canvas we usually do is 36" occasionally going up to 42" All photographs on canvas, nothing else. A 54" machine would be more then enough but I was talked out of looking at the Roland by a friend. We do B&W on canvas plus a lot of landscapes and artists reproduction and really want to get away from the wasted time issue with spraying. Can the new solvent printers put out a product that will hold up without a topcoat or laminate? What 8 or 9 color solvent printer should we be considering?
The Epson S80600 is 19K + warranty and inks puts it in the 25K range. I am a small one man shop and that is a choke number.
Dan Berg
Berg's Canvas Gallery

I print canvases from time to time. I have two Rolands that I am selling. A 54" VP540i Print/Cut for $8,250 in excellent condition and a 64" SJ645ex Printer for $4,500 in good condition.

 

[Dan Berg]

Thanks for your reply. It is amazing how the comments vary on the Epson Solvent vs. HP Latex. One minute I hear the Epson is the one you have to have and the next it is the Latex. My big concern would be to spend this kind of money on an Epson and not be satisfied with the durability of the printed canvas. Eliminating the spraying step is the big reason why I want /need one.
I have the room for the Epson but presently only have 2 really nice larger accounts that will require its use. I am finding it harder and harder to do one offs for consumer accounts. I know they add up, but..

 

[jfiscus]

I just want to recommend comparing a 60600 or even a 40600 (if you have a lighter workload) to the 80600. I do not have faith in the additional inks longevity and recommend sticking with a dual CMYK printer if it is possible. For fine art prints latex is nice as long as the heads are all in great shape, they gradually degrade and print quality drops off so you'll be switching heads more often than stated.

 

[Dan Berg]

Last question, maybe.

I read adding the white ink on the S80600 can add to your maintenance woes?
On our big landscape prints with large white puffy clouds we would have white canvas base coat as the white color if it is 255.
Will there be much gloss differential when you are not using white ink as an over print?