Reverse Barcodes In Onyx?

[bootlegcraig]

Hi there. Perhaps I'm just doing everything all wrong, but when I print on my Epson S60600, laminate, then cut on my Graphtec FC9000-140, I always end up with the "R" barcode facing out when working on roll-to-roll. It's a massive pain to have to rewind the entire roll through my laminator just to get the "F" barcode facing forward. This wouldn't be an issue if the Graphtec knew to cut right-to-left, front-to-back when scanning "R" barcodes, but it always cuts left-to-right, back-to-front, another issue/setting I'd love to figure out.

I have emailed Onyx support over two weeks ago, and sent followup emails to them - but have had 100% radio silence from them on how to print jobs with the barcodes reversed.... basically, "print the whole job in reverse/180°". Using Onyx 22 GammaPrint. Any suggestions?

 

[BigNate]

How big of a deal is it really to rewind a roll? I can do a full 165' manually in under 10 minutes, using anything mechanical can speed this up. However, I just manage most cuts the way the roll is presented - the laminated stuff generally cuts reverse when compared to the non-lam, for the reasons you cite. I have noticed that the cut order for the perimeter cuts does not seem to be a variable (at least on Onyx). But depending on what you are cutting, either way may be preferable (banners work better for me from the reverse, the final cuts will jam less.) for longer banners that have little trim always get plotted from the R as if they had been laminated.

 

[bootlegcraig]

How big of a deal is it really to rewind a roll? I can do a full 165' manually in under 10 minutes, using anything mechanical can speed this up. However, I just manage most cuts the way the roll is presented - the laminated stuff generally cuts reverse when compared to the non-lam, for the reasons you cite. I have noticed that the cut order for the perimeter cuts does not seem to be a variable (at least on Onyx). But depending on what you are cutting, either way may be preferable (banners work better for me from the reverse, the final cuts will jam less.) for longer banners that have little trim always get plotted from the R as if they had been laminated.

Thanks for the reply. I suppose for me, it's not that it's difficult as much as it's a waste of time. That 10 minutes or so every job adds up and is time I could spend doing a lot of other things. I generally use my laminator for this (I'm a small shop of 1), so to take the lam off, load the job, rewind, unload, then web the laminate every day is a pain for me, especially considering a simple "print in reverse" option would seemingly be preschool-simple to add in for those of us who would like to use it. When I cut in reverse, I have a lot of issues with decals coming out and the vinyl bunching which causes the panel to fail....

Do you cut banner on a graphtec?

 

[CanuckSigns]

In Onyx Cut Server there is an option for rotating the graphic, just select 180 degrees and it should work fine.

 

[bootlegcraig]

In Onyx Cut Server there is an option for rotating the graphic, just select 180 degrees and it should work fine.

Thanks for the reply. That rotates the image, but not the front and rear barcodes.

 

[BigNate]

Thanks for the reply. That rotates the image, but not the front and rear barcodes.

but is should be able to scan either barcode and plot from either end with the same results - if it is not the same result either direction, you should figure out why first. The plotter will know which end it is starting from based on which barcode it scans. If for a specific media, you really need to cut in a specific direction, then rewind the roll on just that specific job....

 

[bootlegcraig]

but is should be able to scan either barcode and plot from either end with the same results - if it is not the same result either direction, you should figure out why first. The plotter will know which end it is starting from based on which barcode it scans. If for a specific media, you really need to cut in a specific direction, then rewind the roll on just that specific job....

It definitely scans either barcode, it's just that when it does, the direction it cuts isn't what I want it to do. When scanning the "R" barcode first, it cuts as if it was feeding from the rear, out.... if that makes sense? If I'm cutting 15,000 decals out of a roll, I don't want the rollers rolling over the cut decals over and over and over as they'll pop out and cause issues with the vinyl being able to feed correctly. Maybe I'm using my equipment wrong or something.... I'm still in my first year.... I just think what I'm asking of my equipment isn't such a huge ask, and yet I can't figure out how to accomplish what I'm after.

 

[BigNate]

It definately scans either barcode, it's just that when it does, the direction it cuts isn't what I want it to do. When scanning the "R" barcode first, it cuts as if it was feeding from the rear, out.... if that makes sense? If I'm cutting 15,000 decals out of a roll, I don't want the rollers rolling over the cut decals over and over and over as they'll pop out and cause issues with the vinyl being able to feed correctly. Maybe I'm using my equipment wrong or something.... I'm still in my first year.... I just think what I'm asking of my equipment isn't such a huge ask, and yet I can't figure out how to accomplish what I'm after.

yep, on the odd job that must go forward, I rewind the roll... But I have also done well with totally symmetric images - where the end does not matter due to the symmetry you can lie to it and manually start it from the opposite end that the barcode says... do you contour cut and die-cut in the same button press? I have found that plotting all the contour cut stickers on a 100' image and then starting from the beginning with the through cut is more efficient - I will generally walk away for the contour, but pop out the final pieces while it plots the through cuts. (I have fought through a few segmented 100' images -changing blades twice every 18" or so - real pain, do all of the non-distructive plotting first to eliminate stopping for blade changes)

 

[bootlegcraig]

yep, on the odd job that must go forward, I rewind the roll... But I have also done well with totally symmetric images - where the end does not matter due to the symmetry you can lie to it and manually start it from the opposite end that the barcode says... do you contour cut and die-cut in the same button press? I have found that plotting all the contour cut stickers on a 100' image and then starting from the beginning with the through cut is more efficient - I will generally walk away for the contour, but pop out the final pieces while it plots the through cuts. (I have fought through a few segmented 100' images -changing blades twice every 18" or so - real pain, do all of the non-distructive plotting first to eliminate stopping for blade changes)

I generally just do perf cut without contours but when I do, I have them both occur in the same press (over the channel). My biggest issue with cutting from "R" is that the decals want to pop out, even with perf tabs, and then the rollers bunch up the vinyl because it can't grip the whole width while it's cutting other stickers out.

 

[BigNate]

well, without seeing your design, I cannot say exactly what I would do, but when I have items falling out like you describe, I generally work on way to try to minimize the forces trying to eject them - are all your rows and columns in-line? I find that staggering rows, (indent a row half an image, then don't indent the next, then repeat) will give a pattern that can help hold in perf cut pieces. I also have the cut full down for .75", but raise it just a little for .05" (hoping to be about halfway through the backer)- you can vary the frequency of these up strokes to give a little more support. sometimes, I will use the staggard layout with blank columns that correspond to where the rollers will go - then the rollers never go over image. (but in reality, I do not seem to have a problem with graphics that have has a roller track over them, worst case just let it sit for a day and you can no longer see where the roller was.)

(I guess my philosophy has been to do what I can with the limited functions programmed by the designers, but to take a list of useable and repeatable functions the machine seems to do and use these as the working specs of the device - if'n you can't change the direction, just fix the problem the direction change is causing - sometimes this is much faster and has a better result. - and as a side bonus you will learn the exact limitations of your machine well beyond what the manufacturer will publish)

 

[InkHead]

I had the same issue. I was coming from a Mimaki and using flexi. The S80600L came with Onyx so we decided to use Onyx so we didn't have to pay Flexi subscription.

99% of our work is decals/stickers perf cut and within 2 days I went back to Flexi because of the cut order of Onyx. Hated that it cut from back to front. We like to start popping out the decals as they come off the platen in the front.

We were also used to using Flexi and prefer it over Onyx anyway.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

This doesn't happen on Graphtec models before the FC9000. There is something wrong with the Onyx driver for it I think.
Our 8600 will cut from the leading edge of the media regardless of if the F or R barcode is used.
The 9000 for some odd reason will always start at the 'wrong' end of laminated prints, but perfectly fine on un-laminated ones as the wind directions are different.
I'd much rather the order be reversed, as it's very unusual for us to not laminate something before cutting.
Hopefully this is resolved in a future release.

 

[jfiscus]

It may be a setting somewhere in the RIP? I cannot recall as a tech came in and set up our Onyx/Graphtec configuration originally and I don't remember ever seeing it. Maybe call Onyx with your subscription and ask them about it?
Every print here gets laminated and cut by barcode and we do not have any issues or need to unwind/rewind them before cutting on our FC9000s. Roll-to-roll on the printer, laminator, then plotter. We do not, however, pop out our decals as they plot, as they get weeded and premasked after plotting.

 

[Grizzly]

It must be something to do with the driver for the graphtec as well as the version of Onyx. I'm Running Onyx Thrive
For my Zund, I have the option to Flip the barcodes but that option doesn't exist for either the Graphtec Cutter or the Graphtec Cutter FC9000.
These screenshots are in the "Manage Cutters" options.

 

[bootlegcraig]

Just called Onyx. It's not part of the FC9000 SDK (but was for every model before it for some reason), so it's not something they intended to implement, as it could cause mark scan errors. They said they'd look into seeing if it was something that could be done with the developers, but not something to hold my breath over and that if it were a feature, it'd likely be released in Onyx 22.5, which is coming soon. I've emailed Graphtec to see if they have any insight or advice. I just can't imagine everyone printing and laminating should be expected to rewind every roll they're working on to cut "correctly". What Grizzly posted is EXACTLY what I'm after, but for graphtec. Kudos to Zund for thinking ahead, I suppose.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

I go through and kiss cut the entire roll, then feed the meterial back through the cutter for the perf cut. Material will be facing the correct direction for forward cutting.

 

[Joseph44708]

Just called Onyx. It's not part of the FC9000 SDK (but was for every model before it for some reason), so it's not something they intended to implement, as it could cause mark scan errors. They said they'd look into seeing if it was something that could be done with the developers, but not something to hold my breath over and that if it were a feature, it'd likely be released in Onyx 22.5, which is coming soon. I've emailed Graphtec to see if they have any insight or advice. I just can't imagine everyone printing and laminating should be expected to rewind every roll they're working on to cut "correctly". What Grizzly posted is EXACTLY what I'm after, but for graphtec. Kudos to Zund for thinking ahead,

Just called Onyx. It's not part of the FC9000 SDK (but was for every model before it for some reason), so it's not something they intended to implement, as it could cause mark scan errors. They said they'd look into seeing if it was something that could be done with the developers, but not something to hold my breath over and that if it were a feature, it'd likely be released in Onyx 22.5, which is coming soon. I've emailed Graphtec to see if they have any insight or advice. I just can't imagine everyone printing and laminating should be expected to rewind every roll they're working on to cut "correctly". What Grizzly posted is EXACTLY what I'm after, but for graphtec. Kudos to Zund for thinking ahead, I suppose.

If you print roll to roll, printer prints head to tail, then you laminate that roll from tail to head now its ready to cut, head to tail.
WAHT IS THE PROBLEM.
I reroll every 100' roll I print to cut on graftec cutters manually in about TWO MINUTES.

 

[bootlegcraig]

If you print roll to roll, printer prints head to tail, then you laminate that roll from tail to head now its ready to cut, head to tail.
WAHT IS THE PROBLEM.
I reroll every 100' roll I print to cut on graftec cutters manually in about TWO MINUTES.

In my shop, I cannot change the settings and it prints the “R” barcode first. That leaves the “F” barcode out. When I then laminate that roll, the “F” barcode goes in first, leaving the “R” barcode out. The problem is that If I cut with the “R” barcode the rollers roll over the decals and eventually pulls them out. For me, taking my laminate off, loading the roll, loading a core, rewinding, then unloading the rewinder roll, loading Lam, and re-webbing it takes more than two minutes…. Let alone the fact that what I’m searching for (a simple “reverse barcodes” option) would take less than 1 second to click and would save me time, hassle, and headache. It’s great that it’s not a problem for you, but it is for me, and I’m here seeking help.

 

[Joseph44708]

In my shop, I cannot change the settings and it prints the “R” barcode first. That leaves the “F” barcode out. When I then laminate that roll, the “F” barcode goes in first, leaving the “R” barcode out. The problem is that If I cut with the “R” barcode the rollers roll over the decals and eventually pulls them out. For me, taking my laminate off, loading the roll, loading a core, rewinding, then unloading the rewinder roll, loading Lam, and re-webbing it takes more than two minutes…. Let alone the fact that what I’m searching for (a simple “reverse barcodes” option) would take less than 1 second to click and would save me time, hassle, and headache. It’s great that it’s not a problem for you, but it is for me, and I’m here seeking help.

I will experiment with flexi and my graftec to figure a quick fix.