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Need Help Silvering with Floor & Control Panel Overlaminate

jochwat

jochwat

Graphics Department
Hiya folks,

I'm currently tasked with solving some silvering issues we get when using particular laminates. When using our general glossy overlaminates, we don't get any isues with silvering whatsoever. But it shows up mostly when we make non-slip floor signs. We're printing with a pair of HP 365 Latex printers, and laminating with a GFP 463TH.

We're using a Flexmark 6.5 mil velvet lam, going over some floor-certified white printed vinyl. We're also taking a similar route with other similar materials to make control panel overlays. Both of these are leaving a lot of speckles behind, as shown in the attached photo. You're looking at a small area of the piece, maybe a couple square inches. This was printed over a week ago, so there was plenty of time for the silvering to go away on its own if that's what was supposed to happen.

The first question is, is this an acceptable amount of silvering / speckles? Should it be a concern? The photo sample is only a couple of square inches, but that's how the whole 12" x 10" piece comes out.

Lastly, if that isn't acceptable -- what can I try to alleviate it? We've run it cold, added heat, added pressure, reduced pressure, sped it up, and slowed it down... Not sure if this is caused by dust or dirt particles, but as I mentioned, we don't see this with our other gloss lams, except for an occasional larger crumb or chunk of dirt landing on the sheet.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

-Joe
 

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  • hiyosilvering.jpg
    hiyosilvering.jpg
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A

a77

New Member
Doesn't look quite like silvering to me. Looks like dust or material defect.
If you press hard over one of those spots, or heat up one of those spots... or both - does it reduce the silvering?
 
R

Roper1967

New Member
jochwat said:
Hiya folks,

I'm currently tasked with solving some silvering issues we get when using particular laminates. When using our general glossy overlaminates, we don't get any isues with silvering whatsoever. But it shows up mostly when we make non-slip floor signs. We're printing with a pair of HP 365 Latex printers, and laminating with a GFP 463TH.

We're using a Flexmark 6.5 mil velvet lam, going over some floor-certified white printed vinyl. We're also taking a similar route with other similar materials to make control panel overlays. Both of these are leaving a lot of speckles behind, as shown in the attached photo. You're looking at a small area of the piece, maybe a couple square inches. This was printed over a week ago, so there was plenty of time for the silvering to go away on its own if that's what was supposed to happen.

The first question is, is this an acceptable amount of silvering / speckles? Should it be a concern? The photo sample is only a couple of square inches, but that's how the whole 12" x 10" piece comes out.

Lastly, if that isn't acceptable -- what can I try to alleviate it? We've run it cold, added heat, added pressure, reduced pressure, sped it up, and slowed it down... Not sure if this is caused by dust or dirt particles, but as I mentioned, we don't see this with our other gloss lams, except for an occasional larger crumb or chunk of dirt landing on the sheet.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

-Joe
Click to expand...
When using laminates that are thick and have a texture I saw some of the same issues and I went thru the same process only to realize the next morning all the silvering was gone!
 
S

Snydo

New Member
Do those spots show up outside the ink-covered areas?
None of my overlay customers would accept what's in your image, nor would they ever see it.
For floor graphics you'd probably be OK depending somewhat on the image your covering.
 
I

ikarasu

Active Member
jochwat

jochwat

Graphics Department
a77: If you press hard over one of those spots, or heat up one of those spots... or both - does it reduce the silvering?
When I rub a thumbnail (with hard pressure) over the spots, they disappear.

Notarealsignguy: The real question is..... will they see it on the floor?
That's usually our (production) question, and I'd say of course that no, on the floor those spots wouldn't be seen. The boss just hates 'em.

Snydo: Do those spots show up outside the ink-covered areas?
I don't have a sample handy of one with spots/silvering over non-inked areas, but yes, the issue shows up there as well.

ikarasu: Dust speck check / consistent spotting / tack cloths / etc.
The spots are consistent through the entire lamination process. I'll zoom in and take a look for particles that I might not normally see with the naked eye. And thanks for the tack cloth suggestion, I'm going to give that a shot and see if there are any changes.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.
 
Yeahgor

Yeahgor

Born to be The Designer.
This is not a silvering. This is dust.
Or probably the surface (floor) you cover has the sand or some sharp pins that stand and go through vinyl and pump up the overlaminate... However the heat should helps to shrink overlaminate around this pins.
I saw the kind of same issues when pretty thick (>4 mil) overlaminate put on thin (<2mil) vinyl. More over after some time the laminate starts shrinks and pump up the edges of graphics.


-----
Yeahgor Sign & Design Shop in San Diego
 
S

stxrmxn

New Member
What is the surface of the print film like? Does it have craters in it that the laminate cant adhere to?
 
jochwat

jochwat

Graphics Department
Yeahgor said:
This is not a silvering. This is dust.
Or probably the surface (floor) you cover has the sand or some sharp pins that stand and go through vinyl and pump up the overlaminate... However the heat should helps to shrink overlaminate around this pins.
I saw the kind of same issues when pretty thick (>4 mil) overlaminate put on thin (<2mil) vinyl. More over after some time the laminate starts shrinks and pump up the edges of graphics.


-----
Yeahgor Sign & Design Shop in San Diego
Click to expand...
While I am going to treat it for the moment as a dust / debris issue in the next round of tests, I'll just mention that the problem happens during lamination, not after application.
 
jochwat

jochwat

Graphics Department
stxrmxn said:
What is the surface of the print film like? Does it have craters in it that the laminate cant adhere to?
Click to expand...

No, the vinyl it's going on is a fairly standard, white, floor vinyl. The texture of the product comes from the laminate.
 
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