Steel pole for small sign...

[Tony McD]

I'm quoting a job for a small sign that will be mounted on a steel pole.
Never done a steel pole...only wooden posts.
I have a fabrication shop lined up, but need to know the proper way to build the pole.

There was a sign there before, so the concrete and studs are in place.
It has conduit in the center of the studs with wiring.

The pole only needs to be about 5' tall. Could be square or round.
I have a used 2' x 6' lighted sign that my customer is interested in, so I will quote
a lighted sign, and a non lit sign.
Need to know about how thick the bottom plate and the pole needs to be. 1/2" plate?
Also it seems like attaching the sign to the pole just in the center of the sign won't be
strong enough....should there be a 4' or 5' long piece of plate welded to the top of pole
so the sign would be more secure?

They will need to get an electrician to wire it, but I will need to bring the wiring up the inside
of the pole, or stub it out for conduit up the outside of the pole.

Thank you!

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I'm quoting a job for a small sign that will be mounted on a steel pole.
Never done a steel pole...only wooden posts.
I have a fabrication shop lined up, but need to know the proper way to build the pole.

There was a sign there before, so the concrete and studs are in place.
It has conduit in the center of the studs with wiring.

The pole only needs to be about 5' tall. Could be square or round.
I have a used 2' x 6' lighted sign that my customer is interested in, so I will quote
a lighted sign, and a non lit sign.
Need to know about how thick the bottom plate and the pole needs to be. 1/2" plate?
Also it seems like attaching the sign to the pole just in the center of the sign won't be
strong enough....should there be a 4' or 5' long piece of plate welded to the top of pole
so the sign would be more secure?

They will need to get an electrician to wire it, but I will need to bring the wiring up the inside
of the pole, or stub it out for conduit up the outside of the pole.

Thank you!

Out of my field of expertise. Just please don't run a tacky conduit on the outside of a hollow post.

 

[OldPaint]

ONE THING YOUR NOT THINKING ABOUT.......... what is the size of the concrete.......below ground level????? this is what dictates the sign size/post you can attach to existing bolts. iam guessing your trying to do this without PERMITS? DONT!!!!!!!!
it will bite you in the butt. and wind up costing you more then you can imagine.
GO TO THE SIGN PERMIT office in that town/city. your also gona need an ELECTRICAL INSPECTION/PERMIT.
IF......... there is no existing permit...........for the old sign........walk away........or re dig the base to find out how big it is......if its just a bag of cement or 2 around those bolts........WALK AWAY.......you put up a post & sign.......when it comes down on SOMEBODY or their VEHICLE...........YOU WILL BE RESPONSIBLE.................
this one needs to be all legal.........or get documents......notarized that releases you of all/any repercussions when it falls.))))))))))))))

 

[TonyC]

Suggest....

First thing I would do is contact an engineer to spec the job before doing it. As far as quoting, you can guess close enough for a quote.

A 1/2" base with a 4" x 1/4" wall, round tube will probably be sufficient for quoting purposes.

The sign cabinet can either be mounted with a match plate or a slip fit (saddle mount). I prefer the saddle mount. The pole will extend to the top of the cabinet. The cabinet will need to be built for this application. Your builder will need to know mounting method and pole size to quote.

In the picture, the electrical seems to be off center. I would attach a weather proof box to the side of the pole close to the base. Attach a short conduit to the box then run the wiring through the pole into cabinet. The wiring will not be seen this way.

 

[Tony McD]

Don't worry OP, there will be a permit, city hall is about a half block away )))))))))))))
I won't be doing any of the wiring, but need to at least make the wire accessible for the electrician.

My off center pic makes it look like the stubbed up wire is off center, but if you look close you can see the white conduit
go into the concrete just about dead center of the bolts.

This place was previously one of the drive through oil change places, and a much larger sign was previously there.
Will check with the city for previous permits.

The pole will only be 5' tall with a 2x6 lit sign on top, so pretty sure what's there will hold.
I actually have a used 2 x 6 lighted can that I was hoping to use on this job.
This sign was mounted between posts before.

Thanks for the tips!
Tony

 

[TonyC]

Using cabinet....

You can make a frame, similar to goal posts, to use the cabinet you have. 2" sq. tube with a 1/4" wall for the sides and a 3" sq. tube for the bottom. The cabinet will mount to this like it was 2 posts and you can weld your single pole to the bottom of the 3" sq tube.

Not the best solution but it will work.

 

[Tony McD]

thank you...I was thinking along the same lines for stability.

 

[Rocco G]

My spreadsheet is always a bit off on smaller signs, but it errs on the side of caution.

4" square tube, 1/4" thick
plate 5/8" thick, top and bottom welded to the pole
Inside the pole weld in a support from top to bottom that gets attached to the plate as well. It can be a smaller piece of pipe, a piece of channel, two pieces of steel angle on either side of the lamps, etc. Don't forget to paint it white.

I like square tubing instead of round because you can center the gussets more easily than with a round tube. With round I always end up with a gusset out of place by a bit. Besides my welding magnets are triangles so...

BTW, based on a 4 feet deep footing and 100 mph max wind speed (yours may be more/less - check with the building department) it would require about a quarter of a cubic yard of concrete. It's a pretty small sign. Given that photo I'd guess its at least that much concrete, but you need to verify the depth. It's all about the earth pressure and keeping the sign from overturning. The biggest issue with re-using an old footing is finding out what's in the ground, how deep, how old it is, etc. Not all township offices can find an old permit for you. I usually suggest ripping it out and installing a new one. You can't go wrong that way though most customers don't want to spend the extra money.

And yes, these are only good enough to estimate by. Have an engineer do the actual calculations and stamp the drawing. Prob cost you $250-300 if you draw it up.

 

[Tony McD]

Checked with the city building inspector, and was told I don't need to worry about the footing.
He has the specs for it from the previous sign that was there.
I only need to give specs on the pole, sign, mounting hardware.

Thanks Rocco, my welder stopped by last evening, and your specs on the pipe is what he
was thinking also.

Tony C, we will also add the goal posts for stability.

Another perk is my customer is a licensed electrician....so he will handle the electrical end.

Thanks again for the help,
Tony

 

[JimmyG]

Tony C is correct about the use of exterior conduit box, will have to be done this way...

I usually weld triangular gusset plates at base plate and bottom of pole...In this case 3 sides will suffice given the location of the electrical conduit..

On the "goal post" cabinet support cut the tops off at an angle slanting outward, and cap with rectangle plates... Angled tops will look much better against the sides of the sign cabinet...