Need Help Stickers not getting cut throughly by Graphtec plotter

[HubcityNek]

Hey everyone,

We're new to owning a Graphtec/using a plotter for digital prints and not just cut vinyl. The model we have is the 64" FC8600 and we've had it for only a couple months after buying it at the SGIA. I'm now starting to play with it so that I know the functions well and won't have mess ups on orders, so it's important to me that not only do I find a solution- but the reason as well. I called Graphtec yesterday and are still waiting for a call back.

So my issue is with perf and kiss cutting. Maybe I'm confusing the two, but i've been trying to perf cut or cut completely through decals. So my issue is with how the cut is being made. It's almost as though it's trying to perforate a tear away around the decal, not cut them off. I've adjusted the depth of the blade, there is no laminate adhesive residue, and I don't believe I'm using too much force at 40. We had it at 28 for normal non laminated vinyl.

It has worked perfect before, but only a few times the first goes at it. I was not the person trained on the Graphtec, but had my designer teach me what he taught her- which was really very basic utilization. I've since read the entire manual, in which they don't really offer any explanation of the machines menu system and setting changes. So for all I know it could be a wrong setting in my driver, or on the machine itself.

But I'm looking for someone who has come across this issue and found a solution or maybe knows a lot about the systems because I've seen this machine make stickers that fall out of their shapes so I know it can be done.

 

[bannertime]

The perfcut makes little "hanging chads," if you will, that keep the decal attached to the rest of the material and not mess up in the rollers. So there is a deep down motion that cuts all the way through the backing paper. Then there is a slight up motion that cuts ONLY the vinyl. This creates a clean cut on the vinyl and the backing paper is perforated to allow it to be torn off. The down cut is typically way longer than the up cut.

It's not advisable to do decals that will completely fall off after being cut. At least not on Graphtech machines.

What you've likely seen is promo shots that show a sheet of material being fed through a machine and there are a few decals missing; which is simply to show that the machine can cut graphics out. Not that they'll fall out on their own. It may be possible, but you run the risk of messing up the whole sheet if the rollers catch the material wrong or the blade catches and there aren't enough rollers to keep it straight.

The depth of the blade needs to penetrate a full layer of material, but not be so deep that on the up motion it it's still penetrating the full thickness of the material.

Another thing is, the tool needs to be in slot 2 or the alternate slot (can't remember the name). It's the one that is not on top of the cutting strip.

One last thing, the force should only be about 10-15 points higher than if you were just doing contour cut.

I hope that explains what the machine is doing and what perf cut is. If that doesn't answer your questions, just let me know. I didn't really understand what you were asking.

 

[HubcityNek]

The perfcut makes little "hanging chads," if you will, that keep the decal attached to the rest of the material and not mess up in the rollers. So there is a deep down motion that cuts all the way through the backing paper. Then there is a slight up motion that cuts ONLY the vinyl. This creates a clean cut on the vinyl and the backing paper is perforated to allow it to be torn off. The down cut is typically way longer than the up cut.

It's not advisable to do decals that will completely fall off after being cut. At least not on Graphtech machines.

What you've likely seen is promo shots that show a sheet of material being fed through a machine and there are a few decals missing; which is simply to show that the machine can cut graphics out. Not that they'll fall out on their own. It may be possible, but you run the risk of messing up the whole sheet if the rollers catch the material wrong or the blade catches and there aren't enough rollers to keep it straight.

The depth of the blade needs to penetrate a full layer of material, but not be so deep that on the up motion it it's still penetrating the full thickness of the material.

Another thing is, the tool needs to be in slow 2 or the alternate slot (can't remember the name). It's the one that is not on top of the cutting strip.

One last thing, the force should only be about 10-15 points higher than if you were just doing contour cut.

I hope that explains what the machine is doing and what perf cut is. If that doesn't answer your questions, just let us me know. I didn't really understand what you were asking.

I know what strip you're talking about and the blade is in the channel, not on the cutting strip itself. And at the SGIA, graphtec themselves showed us them falling out easily after cutting. Not necessarily completely without force releasing from the sheet, but it definitely was not this difficult. I know what you mean about the chads thing, but there are too many connected to the stickers to make stickers profitable because of workflow being slow while having to carefully punch the stickers out as to not rip the backing. Maybe theres a setting to change the amount of chads, or change the length of cut until the next chad? Thanks for your response!

 

[bannertime]

I know what strip you're talking about and the blade is in the channel, not on the cutting strip itself. And at the SGIA, graphtec themselves showed us them falling out easily after cutting. Not necessarily completely without force releasing from the sheet, but it definitely was not this difficult. I know what you mean about the chads thing, but there are too many connected to the stickers to make stickers profitable because of workflow being slow while having to carefully punch the stickers out as to not rip the backing. Maybe theres a setting to change the amount of chads, or change the length of cut until the next chad? Thanks for your response!

Yeah, you'll need to change the perforation settings. Graphtec has some in a video in youtube somewhere. Ours are currently 1.3in for the cut and .039 for the up. It cut our perfcut production way down.

 

[HubcityNek]

Yeah, you'll need to change the perforation settings. Graphtec has some in a video in youtube somewhere. Ours are currently 1.3in for the cut and .039 for the up. It cut our perfcut production way down.

Thank you!

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

I had almost completely forgot about "Hanging Chads" hahaha

 

[HubcityNek]

In case anyone is having the same issues, heres a picture of what i mean. You see where the chads are on the side that pulled apart okay, but the other side has excess backing or like too wide of chads (not really sure yet) that wont let the stickers just pop out of the sheet. Ive since contacted Graphtec to ask them which settings to change or tweak and they basically told me i was on my own and that their team couldn't help me since they don't actually use the machines only service them. So I called my supplier I purchased it from an it seems like their tech line will be able to help me. I'll update this thread when I get an answer just in case someone else has this issue.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

What cutting program do you use? Cutting Master or Flexi? You can change the style of the perforation cut. You can change the spacing it cuts and the spacing it skips. Just like bannertime said above. If you are closer to .75" for the cut (I believe it shows a line) and .05 for the connected area(I believe it shows a dot) Something like this __.__.__. We never had luck with the original settings they are set to. The main issue is the connecting piece is always too large in the standard settings. You need enough strength though that you can continue to pull the sheet through the pinch rollers. If your decals fall out you are going to have issues with tracking as you get further through your sheet.

 

[HubcityNek]

What cutting program do you use? Cutting Master or Flexi? You can change the style of the perforation cut. You can change the spacing it cuts and the spacing it skips. Just like bannertime said above. If you are closer to .75" for the cut (I believe it shows a line) and .05 for the connected area(I believe it shows a dot) Something like this __.__.__. We never had luck with the original settings they are set to. The main issue is the connecting piece is always too large in the standard settings. You need enough strength though that you can continue to pull the sheet through the pinch rollers. If your decals fall out you are going to have issues with tracking as you get further through your sheet.

I think I know which setting you're talking about. I run on cut master 4 using the illustrator plug-in (Roland printer etc etc). Are you talking about the line options under the Layers Tab line type? If so, line type 1 is selected which has no dashes. Yeah i'm not trying to have them fall out, but I was shown a demonstration where they were popping out with one fingers worth of pressure, I understand that they wont fall out. Just need it to be as simple as pushing them in instead of painstakingly ripping them from the backing.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

Page 32 of the cutting master 4 manual. Change custom line setting.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...704027973/CP+CuttingMaster4+User's+Manual.pdf

Also if your someone who sets all their settings at the plotter side and only sends a file from the plotter. This video will help you change the perf settings for a specific condition so that you can just cut a standard contour line and the plotter will create the perf spacing instead of cutting master.

 

[HubcityNek]

Page 32 of the cutting master 4 manual. Change custom line setting.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5900b1a3c534a5aa8149a65c/t/59ce7a9a8fd4d2ecb90cab16/1506704027973/CP+CuttingMaster4+User's+Manual.pdf

Also if your someone who sets all their settings at the plotter side and only sends a file from the plotter. This video will help you change the perf settings for a specific condition so that you can just cut a standard contour line and the plotter will create the perf spacing instead of cutting master.

The video, which I watched was made for an older version of cutting master and the tabs are all completely reorganized and renamed so it didn't help much. I'm actually on the phone with a tech from Graphtec right now, so I'll let you know what he has me change. I tried the cut and up settings recommended by someone but they still didn't cut through the backing.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

I'd check your blade depth... 40 feels waaay too high. We run bare vinyl at 17 and laminated at 23 and have zero issues.
Not sure what our perf cut settings are but can dig them out if required.

 

[cleancutblade]

I agree with Signmeup, check you blade depth. Don't forget that cutting paper will dull your blade faster than cutting vinyl. Slower speeds seem to keep the blade cooler and stay sharper longer.